Should First Aid be changed?

[wagionvigil]

I have been wondering for a while why we do not require First AId MB to be a certification like Wildenes First Aid or Red cross First Aid ( not the 3 hour course) and require it before any MB that is out doors. Like Climbing,Hiking, Backpacking,cycling,Swimming ,LIfe Saving ,Camping etc.

[Quailman]

Further, I think the certificate should expire, requiring renewal, or a refresher class. A certificate earned by an 11 year-old would not be valid when he's starting Backpacking at age 15, unless he renewed it at age 14.

[smtroop168]

I'm not sure how this would work. There are a number of changes I would make in the MB program to combine badges or tighten up requirements or even make some age dependent (There I said it! )

I also think some of the rank requirements should be strenghtened and worked in series not parallel.

The MB program is designed to give the scout "a taste" of the MB subject. Some MBs require bigger bite to taste like 70 miles of hiking or 150 miles of cycling. Should the FA MB require more? Maybe...the Scouts in Iowa last year seem to do pretty good when they had to rely on their FA skills to help their buddies.

[FrankJ]

I voted no. I see the first aide merit badge as a building block. Besides I do not want to waste the time of volunteers that staff the WFA courses with eagle chasers that do not want to be there. (On the other hand it would raise the minimum age for eagle to 14)

An aside,has any one noticed that the red cross WFA is more of a situation management course & really does not teach that much first aide? (I am not criticizing the course which I think is good)

[wagionvigil]

I did not take REd Cross but the WFA courses usually require you to have basic first aid and CPR before you can take them.

[FrankJ]

I think it only requires CPR now. When I took last month, they asked for neither. The regular red cross first course is about useless unless 911 is available. But at least it is a start.

[smtroop168]

It's highly unlikely the BSA will move to require a certification course for FA MB. Also given the number of MBs that currently have a FA knowledge requirement contained in them (13 I think), I don't see the BSA requiring FA MB to do them either. I'm not sure why they required FA MB as a requirement for EPrep but still do not reinstitute Swimming as a required MB for Lifesaving, Canoeing, Whitewater, Water Sports etc.

I could only find 3 MBs where an outside course is required as a requirement.

Scuba #4 Open Water Diver Certification
Mototrboating #4a...Obtain a permit to operate a motorboat
Shotgun Shooting #1F Complete a State Hunter Certification course (one of the either or options)

[alex gregory]

First Aid Merit Badge, like all merit badges, is not about expertise it is about learning some basics.

Earning the First Aid merit badge is not a substitute for qualified supervision. Where appropriate, such as supervising aquatics or wilderness activities, unit leaders should be required to obtain and maintain first aid and CPR certification issued by an approved provider such as the American Red Cross.

Based on my experience with my local council, I think councils need to do a better job of coordinating training with the Red Cross or similar organizations with the necessary expertise to make sure that unit leaders and youth leaders have ample training opportunities to learn and maintain skills at least two to four times every year.

[ghoshizaki]

I voted no.

However, I'm working on getting my unit's older scouts (who've already earned the first aid merit badge) as well as adult leaders access to the new American Red Cross Wilderness and Remote First Aid course. I think that's a better way for the BSA to go rather than beefing up the merit badge. (The first aid merit badge certainly needs updating, however.)

Glen
First Aid Merit Badge Counselor
American Heart Association First Aid/BLS instructor and ACLS instructor
American Red Cross CPR/AED instructor (as of a few days ago)
Physician

[Fred Johnson]

Voted no. Don't like the affect on Red Cross and other organizations.

I was slightly confused though. It'd like to see FA MB required for the appropriate other MBs. Also, I'd like to see FA MB be required for First Class rank.

[AquilaNegra2]

I voted no.

Not everyone is a fan of the Red Cross, and I'd hate to see the First Aid badge tied to a specific organization's certification.

What I *would* like to see is requirement 3 spelled out to require an approved CPR mannequin rather than a counselor "pretending" on a person. Maybe the problem isn't the badge at all, but MBCs who water it down.

[ghoshizaki]

What concerns do you have with the American Red Cross?

I just became a Red Cross instructor, and I like how they make all their written material freely available for download. This is in contrast to the American Heart Association (for whom I'm also an instructor), which is not quite so generous with its teaching material.

[Reasonable Rascal]

FA is and should be a stepping stone, not a formal certification. Just as the requirements for TF, SC and FC are stepping stones to First Aid, so should the actual Mb be to spur interest in carrying further. I like the WFA's certification requirement as it stimulates additional growth and represents another achievement that a boy (or adult) can aspire to, another feather in their cap so to speak.

We held a troop-level WFA course back in May up in a mountain camp (Camp Levi Levi, BSA) for 6 youth and 3 adults. It was an ARC course, and yes, it concentrates more on incident management than it does teaching skills per se. This is both good and bad, because while FA does not teach incident management neither does the wilderness course specifically teach more advanced skills such as one might expect. But the course went well and the setting really helped the lessons sink in so far as emphasizing being on your own for a potentially extended period of time. While hardly remote the access to the camp itself is such that the chances of EMS making up with anything short of a high clearance vehicle (standard EMS vehicles are only so-so), ideally equipped with 4WD, are remote at best.

FA should not be a certification that requires regular recert. It SHOULD be a skill that is regularly practiced in such as way as to make it interesting. Remember, Scouting is a game with a purpose.

RR

[AquilaNegra2]

What concerns do you have with the American Red Cross?

gho, rather than start an off-topic conversation that will quickly degenerate into something unproductive, there are interesting comments at the RC page at CharityNavigator.org.