Archery MB.

[deweylure]

I have read all the posts about the Archery merit badge. I agree that a scout should not be denied a chance to try. If they do not complete the requirements they should just get a partial at camp. they can go home and practice.

I disagree about age,some boys are phsically more capable than others. I do think the equipment at some of the camps need to be added to. How about a couple of compound bows. The ususal drop of at peak draw is 50%. I have been shoooting since age8, 33 yrs later I still shoot and now have an 11 yr old,he uses a childs compoud. Proper fitting and improved tackle will help all scouts. The same is true for shotgun meritbadge,I hope we are using a youth gun for the boys to qualify with.

[ScoutMom2]

Hi all,
I feel that young boys shouldn't be able to try the archery MB at camp until they can try the bow and actually HIT the target and STICK the arrow. We've had many kids take and not pass the shooting skill requirement. It's HARD! It requires patience, practice, and skill. Badges are not to be awards of what a boy has attempted---they are badges of what they can actually DO. My son waited 3 years to take archery and he was the only one of his troop that has ever passed it the first time. He shoots bow at home, though, and was ready for the class. I think there should maybe be 2 classes at camp. One for the things everyone can learn and the other to complete the badge for those that are ready. That way the boys don't feel that they "fail" the badge at camp. I think the presentation of this badge is everything! We tell our boys that you most likely won't earn this badge the first time or even at a young age over multiple times just due to strength and girth of a young body. My son passed at 14 years old, and he's not large. It took a lot of work, though.

Now, he's in high school and has just qualified for a new archery team due mostly to the archery merit badge. He shot the second highest score in the entire school. He says it is due to his counselor at camp. He says he couldn't have done it at all without the encouragement he got from the counselor. Now, that's paying it forward and I'm proud of my son that he didn't just brag about his skill, but gave credit where it was due.

[ASM-142]

I would not put any age/skill limit on a scout wanting to start a MB. He does not have to finish the MB at summercamp. To earn the MB he has until he is 18 to complete the badge.

If he can not complete the shooting requirement at summercamp (or the first time he works on the badge) that is OK. For the most part there will be other opportunities to complete the MB. In the meantime he can have all other requireents signed off.

[cballman]

but then we all need to think about something else here. when a child fails to earn a merit badge and gets a partial. does that make it a bad thing? or does it help to learn a lesson that life is not easy and sometimes we will not reach the goal the first time. but its ok to fail but set you sights on acheiving that goal later. and then when it is reached what have you learned? I have found out that if we let the kids fail from time to time then it is possible to learn from failure if we take the time to explain to them why they failed and give them guidence on the path of sucess. but if they donot fail at anything then how can they learn that life is not a perfect place but a place that accepts them whether they earn the badge or get a partial. also I know that as a parent we want our kids to be at the top and not ever have any problems but we also need to learn to let go and let them do it their way.
also if we do everything for our kids what have they learned is that if it gets tough Mommy or daddy will do everything for us and we can just sit back and do nothing.

[Mrw]

Thomas Edison was once asked if he ever felt like giving up in his effrot to invent the light bulb. His reply was something to the effect of that he had never failed in his attempts, he had just found 2000 ways Not to make a light bulb before he found one that worked.

If you can find the exact quote, it might make for a nice SM minute at the end of your next meeting.

I have had a couple kids finish archery and a couple with partials. I do let them know when they sign up to take the badge at summer camp that if they have never done archery before they might not finish as the camp recommends some previous exteriance to be able to shoot accurately enough to finsh the badge. Then they decide if they want to try or just go to the archery range some afternoon and give it a try before signing up next year.

[longhorneagle]

I have had many 11 and 12 year olds complete the archery merit badge you just have to have archery equipment that is made for their size.

I would suggests having the smaller scouts use a 20 pound draw weight on a compound bow shooting at the 10 yard distance the new Archery merit badge requirements allow for. The Matthews Genesis is an excellent bow for this purpose that is built for younger archers but still can be shot by older scouts because is have flexible draw lengths.

I believe the new archery requirements have made some effort to make the MB easier for younger scouts. A new option to meet the shooting requirement allows for shooting at 10 yards which most younger scouts can get an arrow to fly that far. Most cub scouts can even do it.

David -- Eagle Scout
ASM, NAA Archery Coach

[deweylure]

I am all for making merit badges obtainable but the new allowed target face is a joke especially at 10 yds. I let my son try it he is 12 he scored over 150 after 4ends . I then had him shoot a smaller target at 10 yds and would have passed .

Yes proper equipment is the answer as well as practice and a good coach.

Dewey

[Lynda J]

I have a problem when age is the factor in deciding which badge a scout can take. I have a new Scout in my troop that can pull a bow with the best of them. I have a 15 year old that doesn't have the strength to pull a regulation bow. It isn't age it is upper body strength.

I had a boy in our troop this summer that had picked a badge I knew he wasn't able to do. We worked over his badge list for summer camp, when I reminded him some of the requirements on this badge he decided he would take another badge instead.

I helped with the leather work badge at summer camp last week. You wouldn't believe how many SM's had their NEW SCOUTS pick wallets to make for the badge. None of the boys had ever done leather work before.
Only one boy of 20 actually finished his wallet. Another group all picked knife or compass holders. All finished and were proud of their accomplishment.

We as adults have to realize what our boys are capable of doing.

[deweylure]

I have a problem with age also. Last year the other leaders said no 1st year camper can do shooting sports. I let 4 do them and they all passed


dewey

[JazerNorth]

I go over the requirements with each boy on the badges I don't think they can do. Then let them decide. Some have surprised me in completing the badge. Others didn't get it done, but they learned from the experience. Then some listened to me, did other badges and enjoyed the camp. Letting the boy make the final decision works perfectly. If the complain about doing the badge, I remind them that they made the choice. Then off they went, on their own, to see if they could finish the badge.

JazerNorth

[WVBeaver05]

I would have to agree with many who have already posted -- it isn't the age, it is the strength (and maturity). Also, while I would discuss these items with a Scout that I thought couldn't handle a Merit Badge, I would not stop him.

On another topic in this thread, I don't consider not completing the MB a failure. Never have. It is an incomplete with more work to do. My 13 year old son just took Archery and did not complete the qualification requirement. So I asked him. He said he had not completed the MB yet.

And as odd as it may seem, I consider this to be a good thing. Last year we saw boys passed on Archery if they showed up an shot each day. Now that is WRONG! (I did take some kidding from the boys this year who asked why I didn't keep my mouth shut until after they had the badge.)

You are right, it takes practice and coaching to qualify. Unfortunately, there were few open shooting periods at camp last week and the ones that there were conflicted with other classes. We will be looking for a MBC for our two boys that still need a qualifying score.

YiS

[deweylure]

I am an Archery MB counselor and have been shooting along time.Summer camp ended and I received the flood of partials all for shooting. One passed after 2 se3ssions anothe is going to need alot of coaching and help simply because the equipment at camp was not correct he picked up bad habits trying to compensate. Arrows were too short causing his anchor point to get messed up.

dewey

[jr56]

Sometimes I think that the score requirement should be modified, or eliminated, but I keep my mouth shut because I can see both sides of the issued and it's extemely controversial.

[tdfoxsr736]

There are techniques to drawing a bow that will allow young boys to properly draw a bow they could not normally draw by simply holding the bow out and pulling the string. Have the scout face the target in an open stance with his "bow leg" slightly forward. Then have him nock an arrow then hold the nocked bow down against his forward leg perpendicular to the line of the target with his elbow locked, not bent and his fingers grasping the arrow as if to shoot. Now he should draw the bow by first sweeping the bow arm up in an arch with the elbow locked until he is lined up with the target, and at the same time draw the string back to his anchor point. This means he will only have to actually pull the string a short distance. Then have him roll his back shoulder clockwise before anchoring to give him that extra bit of pull, anchor then release.

[scouter01]

There again is a good reason for age requirements on some MB. I have been in support of this for Climbing and a couple others. I never thought about Archery though

lets not get into that discussion again. but here, it seems like there needs to be some time of limiting reguirement,

how bout the first req is: Before working on any of the other requiremtns demonstarte your abilty to shoot a bow and have the arrow go x yards without help. instruciton on how is ok

[cballman]

after rereading some post I believe that they should go back to a minimum score on all shooting sports badges. lets not make everything so easy for any kid. thats why we are losing the older boys. nothing to challange them when they get older. most scout camps have the proper equipment to shoot. it might not be the best available but then again it makes the scouts parents happy because they dont have to buy the equipment. now when I took the shooting sports badges a couple of years ago there were minimum scores to achieve. if we are going to make the req. so easy then why dont we just give the kid the badge just because he asks for a bluecard. I know that sounds stupid but then again what are some people wanting easy not challangeing. just my opinion.

[RWSmith]

I cannot tell y'all how many times I've watched an 11- or 12-y/o Scout, attending his first year at summer camp, leaving our campsite for the Archery Range on Monday morning while I was thinking to myself, "Man, there's absolutely no way that kid is gonna be able to complete that badge in one week; he's just too young, or too small, or whatever." Yet, I each and every time, by the end of the week, I was amazed to see the pride if those kid's eyes at their success!

With a competent, patient MBC, the right equipment, and ensuring the classes are not overbooked, any kid can earn this badge. Of course, if a kid refuses to behave appropriately, then he needs to be booted off the range.

[mhjacobson]

It is not only the score that is important. One best example is my son "dead eye" who more than qualified for the shooting (BB) MB as a cub scout the first time that he picked up a BB gun (of course he has to wait a year so that he could actually shoot the MB). When it came to archery, he thought that it would be a walk in the park for him. Well, it took him multiple attempts on a range before he could shoot his qualifying score (and he did it with a flight of arrows unused). What he learned that was important: DO NOT GIVE UP, everything is not easy the first time!!!

Nope -- minimum scores should never go away, nor should they be too low!

[MacQuarrie]

I coach a JOAD team and give beginner's lessons at our range, and my age requirement is "old enough to draw the bow and follow instructions." I've taught four-year-olds and had no problem. I've also had 27-year-olds who couldn't follow instructions if you paid them, because they already know everything.

When it comes to the scoring requirement, there are several options, and depending on the Scout's age , strength and ability, I'll choose the one that he's most likely to succeed at. Some do better with a smaller target and shorter distance.

One Scout I worked with had several severe birth defects; he had prosthetic legs, vision problems, shorter than average arms, and a total of four fingers (three on one hand, one on the other). Nevertheless, after his first lesson he shot far better than the big burly frat boy oafs who came swaggering in at the same time as him. Why? Because he had a great attitude and listened carefully to everything he was told. Age and strength cannot compensate for arrogance.