Summer Camp Modifying Distance Requirements for Cycling MB?

[dhjackson6]

Can someone tell me if BSA uses a conversion for distance when Mountain biking that is authorized and where to find it? We just returned from summer camp and they are telling me that for every 1 mile mountain biking, that is equal to 2 miles on a road. Looked through the MB book and could not find that written anywhere.

[FrankJ]

Single track mountain biking is harder than road riding. Down hill is lot easier, but it hard to find a 50 mile downhill run. :0 But if it not in the requirements (which it is not) there is no compensation allowed. 50 miles on what most people consider to be mountain bikes is very doable.

If a scout comes back with a finished signed merit badge card from camp then he has the badge; I would just move on. Otherwise send him to an MBC. If it were me the rides would have to conform to what is in the book.

[smtroop168]

Can someone tell me if BSA uses a conversion for distance when Mountain biking that is authorized and where to find it? We just returned from summer camp and they are telling me that for every 1 mile mountain biking, that is equal to 2 miles on a road. Looked through the MB book and could not find that written anywhere.

Welcome to the Forum....what summer camp did you attend?

[dhjackson6]

SMTroop168: We attended Camp Rockefeller at Gus Blass Scout Reservation in Damascus, AR.


FrankJ: That is the issue at hand. This camp does not issue blue cards, they have their own paper work system. Besides that BSA policy on MB's says each Scout must be individually tested and that no requirement can be altered by the MBC. Even the camp paper work says it is up to the unit leader to determine if they completed the MB. So these boys didn't make reports as required for the rides but the instructor claims they completed all the requirements. Our unit takes pride in knowing our boys complete all MB's as stated and we do not alter any requirement for ease or convince. Thanks for the information.

[smtroop168]

I didn't see any reference for the 2 for 1 in the Leader's Guide under Cycling. Here's my suggestion:

Contact the Camp Director camping@quapawbsa.org with an info copy to your District Advancement Chairman asking for clarification on their policy especially about unit leaders determining if the scout completed a MB.

[FrankJ]

Sounds like the camp needs to go to advancement school. For rank requirements, it is up to the scout master for who approves the requirement. For merit badges, it is up to the merit badge councilor. If the camp does not have a qualified merit badge councilor then they should not offer the merit badge. The scoutmaster and or advancement chair should not be approving or disapproving merit badges unless they are counselors for the specific merit badge and the camp should not be putting that burden on them to find registered councilors for merit badge earned at summer camp.

But then we leave in an imperfect world. So what ever you do, remember it is for the boys. If you decide the scout did not the cycling merit & he came away from summer camp think that he did, I would find a resource to help him complete the requirement. I would also provide feedback to the summer camp in a friendly way that the camp MBC was not following the requirements.

[Bill Pitcher]

And, don't forget to be ready for angry parents who paid $$$, and now think their Son earned the Cycling MB at camp. If the blue card/adavancement report is signed "earned", award the MB and move on . . . but speak to the camp's program director and camp executive. Get it corrected.

[lifescoutforlife]

Can someone tell me if BSA uses a conversion for distance when Mountain biking that is authorized and where to find it? We just returned from summer camp and they are telling me that for every 1 mile mountain biking, that is equal to 2 miles on a road. Looked through the MB book and could not find that written anywhere.

I am a MB councilor for this badge, I only own a mountain bike and have went on every 50 mile trip with the boys that are taking the badge that I have been the councilor for. We have usally finished the 50 miles in about 6 1/2 hours. Most trips that I have taken have had both up hill and down hill sections in them.

[FrankJ]

There is a class of down hill mountain bikes that have long travel suspension, heavy wheels and frame. They are built for going down hill and landing big air. They do not climb well and are generally ferried up hill. Sort of a red herring in this discussion, but it is what I was thinking of when mentioning the 50 mile down hill run.

[smtroop168]

There is a class of down hill mountain bikes that have long travel suspension, heavy wheels and frame. They are built for going down hill and landing big air. They do not climb well and are generally ferried up hill. Sort of a red herring in this discussion, but it is what I was thinking of when mentioning the 50 mile down hill run.

Frank...are these Tandems?

[FrankJ]

Anybody mountain biking on a tandem is certifiably nuts. If you go the by axiom it take one to know one... You are talking an expert.

[WeeWillie]

I have heard the 2 for 1 myth applied to Cycling, Hiking and Backpacking. If such a formula existed it would be included in the merit badge pamphlet. If anyone can citte an authoritative source for such a conversion formula please post it.

Please cite the source for if the MBC signs the Blue Card or other local form please post it.. Once a Scout EARNS a MB it can not be taken away is cited in the old Advancement Committee pamphlet. The key word is EARNS. For example, a Scout earns Swimming MB at Summer Camp. The next year he fails the Swim Test for Rowing MB. His Swimming MB can not be taken away because he can no longer pass the Swim Test.

A Scout is required to complete all MB requirements, no more, no less. The MBC is responsible to see that it is done. Not completing all requirements means the Scout did not EARN the badge regardless of the signature.

[smtroop168]

I have heard the 2 for 1 myth applied to Cycling, Hiking and Backpacking. If such a formula existed it would be included in the merit badge pamphlet. If anyone can citte an authoritative source for such a conversion formula please post it.

Please cite the source for if the MBC signs the Blue Card or other local form please post it.. Once a Scout EARNS a MB it can not be taken away is cited in the old Advancement Committee pamphlet. The key word is EARNS. For example, a Scout earns Swimming MB at Summer Camp. The next year he fails the Swim Test for Rowing MB. His Swimming MB can not be taken away because he can no longer pass the Swim Test.

A Scout is required to complete all MB requirements, no more, no less. The MBC is responsible to see that it is done. Not completing all requirements means the Scout did not EARN the badge regardless of the signature.

With apologies to Fred Johnson for a GTA tease:

Once It Is Earned, It’s Earned
Once a registered and approved counselor has passed a Scout on its requirements, a merit badge cannot be taken away. Nor does unit leadership have the authority to “veto” it. Even if a merit badge counselor were found to be improperly documented, it would be a rare occasion when a Scout would be penalized for a failure of an adult volunteer. Unsuitable counselors or those who do not follow BSA procedures should be reported to the local council.

[dhjackson6]

Thanks everyone for the incite on the matter. Unfortunately it was the camp director who is providing me these wrong answers and unfortunately our District Advancement person sometimes in not on top of the correct way to do things. I did go out and get the Advancement Committee book and read the Advancement in Summer camp policy and will be taking this back to the Camp Director for answers. It clearly states what some of you have been saying about being signed off at camp and not to retest. The unfortunate side of this is Scouting has become to kind and freely gives out rank and MB's, at least here in this Council. We have seen to many issues with Merit Badge University and Summer Camp where Scouts are not completing the requirements as stated. Just in this Summer camp we have seen requirements say "with your Family" or "XXX you home" and these requirements where signed off as completed. When the Camp Director was question he said that Camp is considered their Family and Home for the week they are at Camp so that is how they accomplished the requirements. Very sad that as adults people have accepting giving out awards for participation versus giving out awards for Scouts who EARNED them. Again that all of you for your incite and this will be a battle that I'll have to keep fighting to fix.

[smtroop168]

Work your way up the Council Chain. You will find competing priorities between revenue generation and policy compliance. One thing that seems to get the council's attention sometimes is to vote with your feet and not go to the council summer camp or participate in any council events. Keep us posted.

[WVBeaver05]

Thanks everyone for the incite on the matter. Unfortunately it was the camp director who is providing me these wrong answers and unfortunately our District Advancement person sometimes in not on top of the correct way to do things. I did go out and get the Advancement Committee book and read the Advancement in Summer camp policy and will be taking this back to the Camp Director for answers. It clearly states what some of you have been saying about being signed off at camp and not to retest. The unfortunate side of this is Scouting has become to kind and freely gives out rank and MB's, at least here in this Council. We have seen to many issues with Merit Badge University and Summer Camp where Scouts are not completing the requirements as stated. Just in this Summer camp we have seen requirements say "with your Family" or "XXX you home" and these requirements where signed off as completed. When the Camp Director was question he said that Camp is considered their Family and Home for the week they are at Camp so that is how they accomplished the requirements. Very sad that as adults people have accepting giving out awards for participation versus giving out awards for Scouts who EARNED them. Again that all of you for your incite and this will be a battle that I'll have to keep fighting to fix.

Looks like you are doing the right thing. I've been in a similar situation at summer camp. I consider it to be our responsibility - not to the Scouts who may have been signed off without meeting the requirements (although, them I talk to and ask them to read me the requirements and tell me if they feel that they completed them - some are willing to "finish" them after that), but to the Program and to future Scouts. We know that the MBC can't change the requirements but sometimes Camp Staff people seem to get pressure to do "other" things. We need to make sure that they get greater pressure to do the right thing.

YiS