Climbing Merit Badge Age

[Mrw]

at the gym, I would say a mature 8 year old could do it, since it really wasn't hard.

Not any eight year old I know if I am at the other end of the rope!!!

[wagionvigil]

Reviewing some current material for climbing I went through the age section of the training outline for CLimb on Safely. They say that an 11 or 12 year old scout can belay but with supervision and (here is the key factor) with a back up. That would eliminate an 11 or 12 year old from CLimbing MB as it requires them to belay properly. WHich means with supervison but no back up. ALthough there isno age restriction for the MB Climb on Safety does set one which sets the rules for all climbing.

[Ridge Runner]

Gentlemen:

I think you're all missing a very important point. Before a boy can attempt a merit badge he must get his merit badge card from his Scoutmaster. It is here and with the Scoutmaster that the decision should be made that the boy has what it takes to attempt the merit badge. No scoutmaster's signiture on the meritbadge card, no merit badge.

Simple

I don't allow a Scoutmaster to determine who will, or will not be in my climbing class, even if he has approved the boy for the MB. It comes down to risk management since I am ultimately responsible and accountable for what happens on the rock. If a scout lacks the maturity and judgement needed to climb then he's out. The final decision is always mine, and not even the Council's SE can override that decision.
To ensure that Unit Leaders and I are on the same page, I set the stage during the leader's meeting. They know that I will not accept new or first year scouts.

Additionally for me, the age limit for this MB should be 14 with no exceptions....

[wagionvigil]

I do not give partials in Climbing. It is all or nothing. The problem is usually not being able to rappel. And if they can't rappel they get nothing.

[scouter01]

I like partials lol, but meh.

back on subject, I wouldn't want and 8 year old to do it, but beacuse of the way the gym had the equipment set for amutures, if u let go, the person would be able to stay without falling and the person just needed to pull the rope through the belayer thingy. So, it was totaly sfe, but maybe some people would do it slower.

[wagionvigil]

partials are fine on many MB But I feel that if a scout cannot complete the rappelling and climbing part of the requirements what did he actually learn about the sport. Very Little!

[scouter01]

oh yah it that case it makes sense, but say for the camping emrit badge and you do everyhting but the 20 days and nights then it seems good.

[scoutaholic]

I do not give partials in Climbing. It is all or nothing. The problem is usually not being able to rappel. And if they can't rappel they get nothing.

So you are saying that you have added to the requirements? If you can't do it all now, you have to do it all again later.

(I've never heard a scout complain about having to climb/rappel more, but that doesn't mean you can require it.)

[wagionvigil]

No counselor is required to give a partial. When a scout comes to the edge a refuses to rappel what did they actually learn?
Most counselors of Climbing will not accept a partial to complete the exceptions are usually scout camp to scout camp.

[wagionvigil]

Searched some scout camp leaders guides today. No one allowed climbing under age 13 several required 14. I would ask that anyone that has their camps current leaders guide take a look and let me know through my email what you found.
Camp name,Council and age

[scouter01]

seems like adding an extra requirement, but meh.

[wagionvigil]

No, read climb on safely. This actually sets the age for all climbing activities. Age Appropriate Climbing Activities
11 & 12 year olds cannot belay without a backup belay and in the MB you must belay properly by your self
belaying without a backup starts at 13 and up
It says they can rappel and they can climb they just cannt work on the MB

[scouter01]

oh ok. bsa is ageist w/e

[wagionvigil]

No they are not against you. They have learned by experience that most youth under 13 lack the maturity,responsibility,and skills to belay a person correctly and safely by themselves. I realize that there may be younger scouts that could just like there might be a few 14 year olds that would be better drivers than a 16 year old but them are the rules.

[WeeWillie]

BSA Climb on Safely and Topping Out requirements are very Stringent because improper Climbing or Rappelling is extremely dangerous. That translates to limited numbers of qualified trainers, expensive equipment, intense supervision. It is not cost effective to allow Scouts with a low probablity of MB completion (a.k.a. younger Scouts) to take the badge and deny older Scouts (with a greater chance of success) the opportunity to earn the badge. Consider that a 4 sided tower times a climber, belayer, and spotter is 12 Scouts per session.

One of the problems we have in Scouting is retaining older boys because we have pretty much openned everything to younger Scouts. We need more age restrictions, not less.

[cballman]

Camp Crooked Creek, Lincoln Hertiage Council Louisville KY

Climbing merit badge is offerred only thru the tower program must be 13 years old by Jan. 2007 before taking.

[Craft Lady]

Camp Crooked Creek, Lincoln Hertiage Council Louisville KY

Climbing merit badge is offerred only thru the tower program must be 13 years old by Jan. 2007 before taking.
I emailed that one.

The only bummer is that it means the boy that turned 13 January 2nd has to wait till he is 14. I guess they had to pick some date. My son (born March 25th) will also have to wait till the summer after he turns 13 to do the Tower.

We need more age restrictions, not less.

Not sure I totally agree with this. I am fine with age restrictions for saftey reasons but not just for the sake of restrictions. If that makes sense. The truth is there are lots of age restrictions that we have to deal with in life, most of them are to protect us and we have to accept them.

You can't get a license till you are 16 (here in Indiana they have actually made it really weird but I think if you don't take Driver's Ed it is 16 and 6 months.)

You can't drink until you turn 21.

You can't vote till you are 18.

I know some would point out that these don't apply to scouting so let's look at some that do.

You can't work on merit bages or rank after you turn 18.

You can't join Boy Scouts till you are at least 10. You have to earn your AOL to join before 11. You have to be 14 (and have completed the 8th grade) to become part of a venturing crew.

Aren't these age restrictions? If the restriction is in climb on safely, then it should be followed. It is not really adding on. Would you want to risk that a boy that starts a climbing Merit badge when he crossed over at 10 1/2 or even 11, is going to remeber what he learned when he goes to be a Belayer at age 13?

However the flip side of that is, if we just make age restrictions to keep boys in the program I am not sure it will have that much effect. There are plenty of oppertunites for older scouts now that the younger ones don't have. The problem isn't that they have nothing to look forward to, it is that the things they have to look forward to don't grab their attention as much as the fumes do. I personally think that is one of the reasons why when there is no safety issue involved that boys should get a taste for things. That alone helps keep them excited. My son is looking forward to a 50 miler canoe trip this summer. He went rapelling and loved it and is excited to turn 13 and get to work on his climbing merit badge.

My nephew on the other hand was in a troop where they didn't allow the younger boys to do these things. They "saved them for the older boys". You know what happened he was tired of watching the older boys do all the fun stuff and dropped out. He was especially frusterated when he came for a visit and heard all the "cool" stuff my son was getting to do. Now that he has moved here to live with his dad, my son wants him to give scouting a try again.

Now maybe my nephew would have still dropped out even if he did get to do the "cool" stuff, we will never know. I just am not sure that saving the cool stuff retains boys any better then letting them experince. I would propose that it is proably about equal. You lose boys to having "been there done that" and you lose boys to the "I don't want to watch the other boys do all the fun stuff."

Just my 2 cents.

Jennifer

[Ridge Runner]

I believe age restrictions are a necessary evil, more so in today's Scouting program where there are no time limits between the lower ranks.

As such, I would like to see an introduction of Red Boardered MB's for older scouts only to provide them with an opportunity to work within their own peer group, and on activites not watered down for the 11 and 12 year olds. Not many would be needed, no more then say 10 or 12 and could involve activities such as Mountaineering, Pistol Shooting, Hunting, SCUBA, International Travel, ROTC, EMT, etc........

[wagionvigil]

RR most of the items you mentioned above are covered in Venturing. Pistols,Hunting,Reinacting,Mountaineering etc. I have said before we need a mandatory move to Venturing at a certain age. Then the older boys will have these more advanced items to play with. When we had our Powder Horn Course last fall the participants had the opportunity to try all of the Core requirements and electives for the Range Award over two long weekends. The Consultant that did Mountaineering has climbed everything in North and SOuth AMerica plus Africa and Europe ,his next excursion is he ultimate.

[Ridge Runner]

"Bridging Over" into a Venture Crew would be the ideal, but when you live in rural America as I do, it'll be tuff. Better to give those one or two older scouts in a rural troop something to do until they can get the numbers, and volunteers up to create a Venture crew.... I just don't think BSA will be willing to do a return to the old Ranger program....