Chemistry MB Req. 2 query

[Diana Heiney]

Requirement 2 is an experiment using liquid Copper sulfate and iron nails. According to the MB book, liquid copper sulfate solution is available as a root deterrent/killer for waste lines. I can find the copper sulfate in crystal form, but its intended use is as a dry product poured directly into lavatory bowls so there are no instructions on how much to use to produce an appropriate liquid solution for purposes of requirement #2. Does anyone know the percent solution it should be? Is this even acceptable as the stated experiment is for use with liquid? And can steel nails be substituted for iron nails? Iron nails can only be obtained through special order these days, at least around where we live.

Thanks for any help

Diana Heiney

[Quailman]

It's a solution of dissolved copper sulfate. If you put too much in it won't fully dissolve. I couldn't find exact amounts to use, but it should be sky blue like the solution blood centers used to use (and some still do) to test for anemia. The reaction is not explosive. It's a simple replacement,
Fe + CuSO4 → FeSO4 + Cu.

[fritz1255]

On the same subject, can anybody direct me to some place that I can buy copper sulfate? The only place I have found where it can be mail ordered has a 5 lb minimum order plus a $40 hazmat fee tacked on.

[cballman]

Try any home improvement stores. Or call the people who clean out drain lines like Roto-Rooter. Also you can purchase this item at Southern States or other farm supply stores. These are just a few places that you can purchase the Copper Sulfates in our area.

[alex gregory]

Try http://www.hometrainingtools.com.

30g liquid copper sulfate for $3.25. If you google "chemistry supplies" you'll find a bunch of vendors.

[kwildman]

work with a local laboratory or school. They should be willing to help scouts out. you will avoid the bulk order and also the shipping fees. Iron nails are required if you want to see the reaction. Steel is mostly iron but has carbon and other hardening agents that will prevent the iron from reacting.

Although not required this experiment should preferably be done under the supervision of the MBC for safety. CuSO4 is not extremely hazardous but can be a problem if not handled appropriately or if it gets in the eyes or mouth.

[fritz1255]

Thanks for the replies. Actually, I ordered it off EBay, mostly to avoid having to give out my credit card info to someone that I will likely never place another order from.

[RWSmith]

Thanks for the replies. Actually, I ordered it off EBay, mostly to avoid having to give out my credit card info to someone that I will likely never place another order from.

Dude,

You are so on BB's list, now... and FOREVER.

Paranoid you say? Who, me?... Yup; I admit it. But, you know, I'd bet you'll never go through another TSA or border checkpoint without getting "full" service.

[fritz1255]

What's "BB's List"? Guess I'll find out if I am on the TSA list next week.

Also, where would I get iron nails? My local Crucifiction Supply Store is fresh out. Would cast iron work?

[RWSmith]

What's "BB's List"? Guess I'll find out if I am on the TSA list next week.

Also, where would I get iron nails? My local Crucifiction Supply Store is fresh out. Would cast iron work?

"BB" = "Big Brother" As far as the "list" goes? You won't even know you're on that list. In fact, TSA won't either... not until you present your boarding pass at the first TSA checkpoint. (Plus, it's probably too soon, i.e., hasn't caught up with you, yet.)

"....local Crucifiction Supply Store...." <----

[alex gregory]

Also, where would I get iron nails?

If you google your question you will find houseof antiquehardware.com. You can also find antique nails at lots of stores that sell antique furnishings.

[kwildman]

you can also get them at stores that specialize in woodworking.

[fritz1255]

Regular old steel nails worked just fine. I also used some small pieces of cast iron, but did not see any obvious differences in the way they behaved in the copper sulfate solution. We also tried electroplating using copper wire and a couple of different battery voltages. For homework, the boys will be bringing in various items from home that they would like to copper plate.

And RWSmith, I will be on the lookout for black helicopters.

[Cowboy]

As said above: Get in touch with the High School Chem teacher. We have our Middle School science teacher as our Chemistry MB counselor. She has all materials at hand. It probably helps that our district administrator is an Eagle Scout. For Iron: Talk to the local Scout Camp ranger. Camp always has a dutch oven or two that is cracked or broken.

[FrankJ]

As an aside. Cast iron generally has an higher carbon content in it than steel. The carbon is what makes cast iron brittle & gives cracks in it the gray color.