catch and release

[cballman]

why does the fishing and fly fishing merit badge have a req. in them to catch 2 fish then release 1 and clean and cook the other one. when most of the sportsman are now teaching catch and release. I understand that we asscouts and leaders need to learn basic survival skills. in how to cook and clean but that is another merit badge. any thoughts on this?

[optimist]

Neither Cooking nor Wilderness Survival has a similar requirement. It could be they just decided that since these are the badges where you actually catch fish, this would be the best opportunity to learn that skill. It could also be that they just haven't thought of moving it or removing it.

[Guneukitschik]

I think the clean and cook requirement is a good one. Think about all of the "city" scouts that haven't experienced fishing. This gives them the opportunity to experience the whole point of fishing which is to catch food.
Fishing has grown into somewhat of a sport, however, the basic reason fishing exists is to put food on the table.

I do agree that the requirement needs adjusted to be one of several so that the scout if they so choose to could clean and cook a fish...rather than making it required.

[dparker]

...This gives them the opportunity to experience the whole point of fishing which is to catch food.
Fishing has grown into somewhat of a sport, however, the basic reason fishing exists is to put food on the table. ...

I don't know that this is true anymore. While fishing may have started to be able to put food on the table, our modern society is such that this is no longer required. As you say, it has become more of a sport or recreation now and maybe the requirements should reflect that change. I personally do not like most fish as a meal, but that does not mean that I don't enjoy fishing.

Your suggestion to make it a "Do one of the following" or something like that is a good one.

[Guneukitschik]

I agree that the requirements need to be updated.... but to say that Fishing is not required to put food on the table is untrue... Correct where we/most live, fishing is not required to put food on the table..we have the fortune of being able to go to the local store or farmer's market and purchase the fish... These fish didn't just jump in the boat...they don't fall from the sky prepackaged and prepared...they were caught, cleaned and cooked!

However if I were out camping in the middle of nowhere and needed food....I think knowing how to clean and cook it would be a great piece of knowledge to have.

Maybe a change in the cooking part of the requirement would be to name/identify particular species of fish that are good to eat and some that are not particularly good to eat?

[dparker]

I agree that the requirements need to be updated.... but to say that Fishing is not required to put food on the table is untrue... Correct where we/most live, fishing is not required to put food on the table..we have the fortune of being able to go to the local store or farmer's market and purchase the fish... These fish didn't just jump in the boat...they don't fall from the sky prepackaged and prepared...they were caught, cleaned and cooked! ...

Agreed, but those fish we see in the store were caught in a commercial fishing environment, which is very different than a backpacker fishing in a backwoods stream. The requirements of the Fishing/Fly Fishing MBs have little to do with that type of fishing.

...However if I were out camping in the middle of nowhere and needed food....I think knowing how to clean and cook it would be a great piece of knowledge to have.

Point taken. This makes sense then to have this as part of the merit badge. With that in mind, it would make sense to have this actually be a required part of the merit badge.

Maybe a change in the cooking part of the requirement would be to name/identify particular species of fish that are good to eat and some that are not particularly good to eat?

Another good idea!

[Guneukitschik]

Do you think the Fishing MB should include some info about Commercial Fishing? or perhaps include info about fishing in different environments, countries, etc?

[dparker]

Do you think the Fishing MB should include some info about Commercial Fishing? or perhaps include info about fishing in different environments, countries, etc?

Interesting question. I don't want to wander too far off from the OP original question, but it is a possibility. I don't think the original intention of the MB was to cover the commercial side of fishing, so I don't know that it really fits in. I could be convinced otherwise though!

[Guneukitschik]

I think they should at the very least provide some basic information about all types of fishing (I realize that fly-fishing is a seperate MB)
They could include Deep Sea Fishing, Ice fishing
This would be educational for the scouts that never get to experience it.

[Lynda J]

One thing on the cooking of the fish that concerns me is the fact that some lakes and rivers are now polluted to the point that people are being told not to eat the fish. If they do a totally catch and release policy then you don't have to worry about the quality of the fish the boys are catching.

[Billvann]

Neither Cooking nor Wilderness Survival has a similar requirement. It could be they just decided that since these are the badges where you actually catch fish, this would be the best opportunity to learn that skill. It could also be that they just haven't thought of moving it or removing it.

Food is a low priority in most survival situations. One can go approximately 3 weeks with out food, compared to 3 days without water and 3 hours without shelter (in adverse conditions). Of course these are approximations and YMV. Furthermore, eating off the land presents new risks from improper handling and cooking, or miss-identification. It's because of these reasons that catching and preparing food, both from fishing or snares, is not commonly taught. Instead, the focus is placed on immediate survival with the thought that help will be on it's way in hours or days. Of course there are some exceptions, such if one is lost in the wilds of Alaska where one could be on your own for an extended period of time. But that's the exception for most scouts.

However, if one where to procure food, fishing is the most likely technique an average person can employ with success. Snaring requires too much hunting and tracking knowledge and experience to be successful enough to warrent the expenditure of energy. Fishing on the other hand is a skill many can grasp even without experience and can be done with minimal effort. Still, an inexperienced fisherman will not likely produce much food if they don't understand some basics on fish behavior.

I'm not arguing either way. I can see the value of learning the basics on how the clean a fish. I have a friend who's an avid fisherman who practices catch and release. However, when he's on an extende fishing trip, usually with a guide, he does clean and eat fish for his meals and releases those fish beyond his normal meal requirements.

[wagionvigil]

I have been Fly Fishing most of my life. I practice Catch and release BUT in this part of Pa. the streams have a very low hold over rate especialy through the summer. I feel it is important that everyone that fishes does know the correct way to lean a fish. If the trout swallows the fly there is little chance of survival so you might as well keep it and clean it rather than putting it back to die and be a waste. Also if for some reason you catch a trophy( we had a 32 inch brown caught during summer camp on Laurel Hill) you need to know the proper way to prepare it for mounting. Which involves cleaning.

[hacimsaalk]

why does the fishing and fly fishing merit badge have a req. in them to catch 2 fish then release 1 and clean and cook the other one. when most of the sportsman are now teaching catch and release. I understand that we asscouts and leaders need to learn basic survival skills. in how to cook and clean but that is another merit badge. any thoughts on this?

what is wrong with having to cook and clean one, they need to start somewhere. if they dont do it, then how are they ever gonna know how to do it?

and what true sportsman are teaching catch and release.


also there is a part in the camping merit badge where you have to practice leave-no-trace. does this mean that you shouldnt have to do it because it is part of another merit badge?

[wagionvigil]

I for one teach catch and release with fly fishing. I have been fly fishing since I was 7 or 8 years old and after I got into high school I started releasing everything I caught. I always take pictures before I release.

[DonDTroop204]

The book requirement is to "catch two fish, release one. Clean and cook another fish"

We have been having an argument in our troop. It doesn't say clean and cook the other fish. It says another fish. If the boy has caught a number of fish, but has released them all. Can he clean and cook a fish that was caught by someone else? I say yes, that is the way it was written, it doesn't say the fish has to be one of the two fish he caught, it is "another" fish.

If my son and I went fishing and I caught a cookable sized fish, but he didn't, why can't he clean and cook mine. He has caught many fish before, but we didn't keep them.

[hacimsaalk]

The book requirement is to "catch two fish, release one. Clean and cook another fish"

We have been having an argument in our troop. It doesn't say clean and cook the other fish. It says another fish. If the boy has caught a number of fish, but has released them all. Can he clean and cook a fish that was caught by someone else? I say yes, that is the way it was written, it doesn't say the fish has to be one of the two fish he caught, it is "another" fish.

If my son and I went fishing and I caught a cookable sized fish, but he didn't, why can't he clean and cook mine. He has caught many fish before, but we didn't keep them.

i dont see anything wrong with it. down at scout camp when we did it, my friend caught his two fish, and then threw them back, he wasnt aware of the need to cook one. i caught my two and i gave one to him, and the MB counsler was ok with that.

[West]

I think the point is that he cleans and cooks a fish, as well as catching a couple. It's probably up to the counsiler, but he certinatly wouldn't be out of line to allow someone to clean a diffrent fish. The learing of the requirement has been met.

And I see nothing wrong with teaching realease most, go ahead and eat some once in a while. Responsible stewardship is diffrent then avoid useing resorces at all costs.

[cballman]

when my son earned this badge a couple of years ago the fish that he caught were not big enough to keep so when we went to the beach and talked to a man that runs a fishing charter. His son took my son to the back of the shop and went out to a boat that came in with a couple of fish for my son to clean. he showed my son how to clean and prepare the fish to cook later on that evening. the MBC said that if we went to that much extreme to clean a fish then we must be crazy. but then again the MBC is also a friend of ours and when we showed him the pics. he was very impressed with the boy that took our son int his shop. but then again it was for scouts and then most people will do just about anything to help out.

[deweylure]

My concern with eating a fish caught is, most states have advisories against doing so. Illinois has an advisory for all game fish,lake michigan waters have a separte advisory for trout ,salmon etc. I did some research on line and every state has issued advisories for chemicals like PCB,Methyl Mercury and others.

The advisory states women of child bearing years,women who are pregnant or nursing, and men should not eat these fish.Children under 15 yrs old are included.

Mercury can cause nervous system damage. Why take a chance.

I have already written National HQ about this requirement.

[Lynda J]

The grandfather of one of our boys has a catfish farm. We camp there lots and get to fish. Last trip the boys caught 28 fish. Threw back all but one for each person at camp and then had to clean them.
Funny thing was that most of the boys didn't realize that catfish crock. Even after their heads have been removed. It was so much fun watching the boys hold these heads that still were crocking. Other nice thing is that we don't have to worry about tainted fish.