Family Life Q on the 3 mth chart

[Wendas]

Ok I have been an Family Life MB counsilor for years and have interpreted this line one way. But, I got a scout that did the 3 mths charting before coming to see me. If I interpreted it right, he has to redo the 3 mths. If he interpreted it right, then I have to change how I veiw it.

Denotes a chore that should be done as needed or at least once a week.

He had some chores on his chart that were not done at least once a week. For example Shoveling snow.

He read the "chore should be done as needed" as one type of chore. and the "at least once a week" as another type of chore due to it being connected with and OR...

I see it as "As needed meaning more then once a week if that is what the chore calls for" ... But ... Each of the 5 chores must be done at least once a week..

So I told him I would come on here and get advice just incase I am interpreting it wrong.

Please help..

[wagionvigil]

Prepare a list of your regular home duties or chores (at least five) and do them for 90 days. Keep a record of how often you do each of them

Does not say with the approval of your counselor. OR discuss with your counselor. imho

[scoutaholic]

Ok I have been an Family Life MB counsilor for years and have interpreted this line one way. But, I got a scout that did the 3 mths charting before coming to see me. If I interpreted it right, he has to redo the 3 mths. If he interpreted it right, then I have to change how I veiw it.

Denotes a chore that should be done as needed or at least once a week.

He had some chores on his chart that were not done at least once a week. For example Shoveling snow.

He read the "chore should be done as needed" as one type of chore. and the "at least once a week" as another type of chore due to it being connected with and OR...

I see it as "As needed meaning more then once a week if that is what the chore calls for" ... But ... Each of the 5 chores must be done at least once a week..

So I told him I would come on here and get advice just incase I am interpreting it wrong.

Please help..

Prepare a list of your regular home duties or chores (at least five) and do them for 90 days. Keep a record of how often you do each of them.

Where does the requirement say the chore "should be done as needed or at least once a week"? It says "regular home duties or chores". The requirement says nothing about how often he should do the chores, just that he should do them.

If his chart shows that he should make his bed every day, and he has only logged that he did it twice each week, he has still done the chore and recorded when he did it.

As a MBC, your job is to make sure he has filled the requirements. You cannot add to, nor take away from them. If the requirement doesn't say "do them every time you should", or "all the chores have to be done at least once each week", then he doesn't have to do them that way.

[FrankJ]

The question boils down to what is a chore? If shoveling snow is a legitimate chore (Where I live it is not) I would count it. Weekly is not is not in the requirement, but it does need to be done in the charting period.

This is why one of the first steps of the merit badge process (as in the Scout Handbook) is meet with the merit badge counselor who, after all has the final say on the requirement. I am glad to see you have a open mind.

[WeeWillie]

Requiring 120 days of chores is adding requirements. MBCs are allowed to display sound judgement and common sense without being accused of adding requirements. Look at the current MB Book and see how the requirement is demonstrated. If your interpretation is consistent with the MB book then go for it.

Let's be realistic. How many kids archive a 90 day chore log or logs? What about seasonal chores such as snow removal, raking leaves, mowing the lawn? The MBC does not have to accept bogus or unrealistic chores. I once reviewed a chore log that included clean the dog poop daily that was checked off the same week the Scout was on vacation and again when the Scout was at Summer Camp.

If I received a previous chore list that appeared to be legitimate I would probably accept it.

The purpose of the badge is to teach family responsibility not how well a Scout can put check marks on a piece of paper.

[VenturingL]

My son is currently working on this MB. He reveiwed his list of chores with MB counselor before starting - he has 4 daily & 4 occasional (such as doing a load of laundry). He has an excel spreadshhet with each day & simply puts an "x" in the cell under chore heading when he does something. When he is done, he can print & we can sign off to verify he did the chores, & he submits to MB. His MB counselor said to simply note if he couldn't do chores (at camp, sick, overloaded on homework, etc.), but that she expect to see these sparingly. I believe the MB booklet has something in it about the fact that not all chores are done every day. It depends on what the chore is - such as mowing the lawn - only when it needs it. Shoveling snow, if you live in that part of the country, meets this criterion.

[Quailman]

As Scoutaholic posted,

Prepare a list of your regular home duties or chores (at least five) and do them for 90 days. Keep a record of how often you do each of them.

There's nothing there about a penalty for failure to keep up with the chores. If Pee Wee goes to the beach every other weekend with friends and doesn't take the garbage out on those Saturdays, he still has kept a record of how often he's done it. This is where the MBC might discuss responsibility to the family and how the chores have to get done by someone else if Pee Wee's not doing them.

As wagionvigil said, there is nothing in the requirement about prior approval of your MBC. There's not even anything about frequency, except the vague term "regular". Most chores are at least weekly, but a chore is a chore. I can remember some winters growing up that I would have had a check under "shovel snow" on about half the days and other winters that might have had four or five checkmarks in three months.

Don't make this more burdensome than it needs to be.

BTW, I pay my son to mow our lawn each time he does it, so we agreed that it's a job and not a chore.

[Wendas]

Thanks I did not have a problem with him starting without my approval. It was if it was done correctly enough for me to sign him off.

The piece I read is on page 20, and it shows a chart that has something like

#1 Your Room (with 3 chores underneath) all done daily
#2 Family meals (2 chores underneathe) all done daily
#3 General chores (3 chores underneath) some daily some at least once in the week.
#4 Laundry (2 chores) both done 2 times in the week
#5 Yard work (2 chores) both done at least once in the week.

Now you are right this is more explaining how to chart correctly and not in the actual Requirement. So although I still feel the RIGHT way to do it is as I stated, I also do NOT want to deny the scout the requirment. So I will bow to the technicallity on this instance.

NOW the question will be will the Scoutmaster??? You see the scout never officially got the blue card to officially start the merit badge. Our Scoutmaster must be willing to back date the card in order for him to get the MB done in the next 2 weeks which is what he wants to do.

[wagionvigil]

Scoutmaster has no choice. It is signed off. By the way Blue Cards are not a requirement they are strictly a bookkeeping item for the counselor and the scout. Yes I can show you that in writing.

[smtroop168]

The last scout I did this badge with brought me his family's refrigerator list with all the 4 kids on it. Messy yes but you could tell it was a living, working document. Signed that requirement off in a hearbeat.

If you need anyone else to help you with documentation, wagionvigil can vouch for my expertise with National.

[wagionvigil]

Just mentioned you in another thread you answered.

[WeeWillie]

A MBC does not have to accept work (chores) performed prior to meeting a Scout

Here is a summary of Boy Scout Requirements 2008, Introduction to Merit Badges, Call the Counselor.

A Scout must:

Get a signed merit badge application from your SM. (doesn’t have to be a blue card).

The counselor may ask to meet you and explain what is expected.

When you know what is expected, START to learn and do things required.

There is a clear sequence of events that a Scout must follow. Handing a MBC a list of chores that were already performed does not follow that sequence. Also, the MBC explains what is expected, not the other way around. There is a pretty standard list of chores that Scout age children should be performing and a qualified MBC knows what that list is. Requiring a Scout to include a combination of daily and periodic chores is not adding requirements; it is exercising sound judgment and common sense, the reasons we require qualified MBCs.

Also, the requirement is to do the chores for 90 days. It doesn’t say the days have to be continuous. Once again, we expect our qualified MBCs to display sound judgment and common sense. For example, if a Scout misses a few days, then tag them on to the end. If a Scout has summer visitation then allow the Scout to change the chore list to meet the non-custodial parent’s situation.

The only problem I’ve had with this MB or any other advancement requirement has come from parents who adopt low ball interpretations to meet artificial advancement goals.

[wagionvigil]

At this time, the Scoutmaster also can issue the Scout a signed Application for Merit Badge (blue card).
The key word here is CAN this is from the MB counselor Training guide.

[FrankJ]

Merit badge counselors need to use judgment about whether or not to accept prior work. Clearly it is sometimes accepted like camping nights for the camping merit badge.

[ASM-142]

... There is a pretty standard list of chores that Scout age children should be performing and a qualified MBC knows what that list is. Requiring a Scout to include a combination of daily and periodic chores is not adding requirements; it is exercising sound judgment and common sense, the reasons we require qualified MBCs...

The MBC should not be specifying the chores to be performed. This is soemthing between the scout and his parents (family).

[WeeWillie]

ASM-142

I didn't say the MBC should select the chores. Over 1/2 the families I've seen already have more that adequate chore lists. I've had families with no chore list and I've helped them come up with one (including for siblings).

[evmori]

I'm a Family Life MB counselor. Nothing states the frequency of the chores. And if they are completed prior to the SM approval & meeting with the MB counselor, then it it up to the MB counselor to accept them.

[ASM-142]

ASM-142

I didn't say the MBC should select the chores. Over 1/2 the families I've seen already have more that adequate chore lists. I've had families with no chore list and I've helped them come up with one (including for siblings).

Mike,

I am sorry if I misunderstood what you said. However, your previous posting did state

There is a pretty standard list of chores that Scout age children should be performing and a qualified MBC knows what that list is. Requiring a Scout to include a combination of daily and periodic chores is not adding requirements

Is this list something that comes out of national? If it is I have never seen it. Either way can you post this list.

Charlie

[WeeWillie]

Ed

"... and do them for 90 days"

If a Scout only does chores 3 days a week then it will take the Scout 30 weeks to complete the 90 days.

Both Call the Couselor and Requirements are requirements found in Introduction to Merit Badges. If you accept a Scout's work done prior to Call The Counselor you are violating the no more and no less rule in found 3 paragraphs later in Requirements. Wendas does not have to accept work done prior to being contacted.

Charlie
There is no national list. Let me clarify what I meant.
If you and I came up with a sample list of 25 chores to have available for families looking for suitable chores for FL MB our respective lists would probably be similar. My list wouldn't include shovel snow since I live in a desert.

Sorry for the confusion.

[evmori]

Ed

"... and do them for 90 days"

If a Scout only does chores 3 days a week then it will take the Scout 30 weeks to complete the 90 days.

No, it will take 90 days. Frequency of the chores has no bearing on the requirement. We as MB counselors are not to pick & chose the chores nor are we to tell the Scout that isn't good enough. Read the requirement. All the Scout must do is "Prepare a list of your regular home duties or chores (at least five) and do them for 90 days. Keep a record of how often you do each of them."