Rifle - Bench Rest vs Fox-hole Prone Supported

[ThunderingWind]

I am now an NRA Certified Rifle Instructor and an NRA RSO (return certificates still due from NRA but they cashed my check). I am also now approved by the Council Advancement Committee to be an MBC for the Rifle MB.

We have five boys in our troop that did not make the proper score/grouping to earn the MB at Summer Camp. They were also not given credit for sight adjustment because they did not make the needed adjustments (Aim Point because they were fixed sight rifles) to get the proper score/grouping.

My troop has asked me to help them complete the MB.

My club indoor range only has standup lanes. Each stall does have adjustable table-like shelves that can accomodate a decent front rest as used by Summer Camp and even sand bags. They can not be lowered to create a full bench rest situation. Also the floor of each stall has a cement riser that will not allow a prone shooting position.

My training in the military and with other marksmanship courses has taught me that the prone supported, the bench rest (front only) methode used by the BSA and the standing-fox hole supported position are close enough with the .22 cal rifles.

My question to you is this: given the limits of the range being offered for use and the similar techniques in holding and supporting the firearm - would you allow the youth the complete the shooting requirement using the standing-fox hole supported position?

In the standing fox-hole supported position, a shooter hold the firearm tha same way as they would on the bench. The same front rest (or those from the approved list0 are also used. The only difference is how the shooter is attached to the ground. The bench position, they sit down, the standing fox-hole, they are standing but the shooting platform is set so that it matches the same as the bench rest position.

[wagionvigil]

You are the certified expert it is your call

[ThunderingWind]

You are the certified expert it is your call.

Yes, but as this is the first batch of boys since my certification, I wanted to get some additional feedback. My first reaction is that since all my training says they are similar, it should be OK and I would be operating within the Spirit of Scouting. However, the MB book states:

K) .... a bench rest or supported prone position......

The standing supported is neither in the literal definition yet similar in the functional definition. I do not want any one coming back saying I changed the requirements outside the parameters of any and all BSA rules, regulations, policies or guidelines. Yet at the same time I am trying to provide a opportunity for the boys to complete the MB.

[kwildman]

you should be fine. The intent of BSA's requirement is to limit the mobility of the shooter and ensure that the rifles are managed in a way that keeps the barrels downrange. These positions also give the shooter the best chance to succeed as opposed to free standing.

i would suspect that your scouts will make their qualifying scores much quicker on your equipment than the summer camp equipment.

[ThunderingWind]

i would suspect that your scouts will make their qualifying scores much quicker on your equipment than the summer camp equipment.

I do have one rifle that will drive tacks at 100 yards but they do not get to use it. I have a few MK IIIs that I can group at 3/4" with Federal 510 ($1.47 per 50), 1/2" using Federal 711 at $3.99 per 50 and 1/4" using Match grade ammo at 7.99 a box.

[Cowboy]

My taker would be: It says "bench rest" not "Butt rest". The MB is concerned with the rifle not the feet. As long as the actual involved body parts are in correct position that is what counts.

[bluenote]

I've run the rifle range for 2 years at our summer camp (have all the camp school certs....) and we use bench rests. However, the adaptation you are talking about is still a strongly "supported" position. All of these are primarily a way for the boys to learn basic shooting skills in a position which gives them a good opportunity to shoot qualifiers by helping diminish muzzle movement. As far as requirement 2k, regarding the sighting of rifles, there is a provision in the MB book which states what they need to do to shoot qualifiers and discuss sighting methods when using borrowed and/or fixed sight rifles. After you have them shoot a few groups, spend some time discussing how to zero in a rifle with adjustable sights, scopes, etc... and you have covered the sighting requirements.

[ThunderingWind]

.....the adaptation you are talking about is still a strongly "supported" position. All of these are primarily a way for the boys to learn basic shooting skills in a position which gives them a good opportunity to shoot qualifiers by helping diminish muzzle movement.

I feel it also a valid position to use to help younger shooters. It was the first position the Army taught when I was 17 and never ever held a firearm before.

I was just looking for alternatives based on the free range time my club is donating while still remaining within the the Spirit of Scouting.

There are Merit Badge Police that will fight to the death to ensure that the Bench Rest seated or prone supported position are the only ones ever used by the Scouts.