Pets Merit Badge

[bearpatrolleaderinctown]

My brother, a friend, and myself are all scouts in the same patrol and every year since i can remeber we all have raised a goat or lamb for four months as a pet and showed it at a local livestock show. i was wondering if you would think this would count.

[FrankJ]

If it fits the requirements, it should. You need to discuss this with your merit badge counselor. He has the only opinion that counts.

[scoutaholic]

My brother, a friend, and myself are all scouts in the same patrol and every year since i can remeber we all have raised a goat or lamb for four months as a pet and showed it at a local livestock show. i was wondering if you would think this would count.

That sounds to me like you have completed requirements 1 and 4a. You just need to get a councilor that will agree.

[bearpatrolleaderinctown]

Thanx for your input i thought that it could count i will talk to my scoutmaster at the next meeting and see about contacting a merit badge counselor for this badge so that we can get the badge to get a start on earning merit badges.

[ronin718]

I thought you were supposed to get your blue card and contact the MBC before starting work on the MB, not after. Some things can be counted retroactively (like camping nights for the Camping MB), but this seems to be something that is planned, thus allowing appropriate contact beforehand.

If this is not the case, please tell me.

[RWSmith]

Nowhere is it written that getting the Blue Card must occur prior to accomplishing any MB requirement. [That would be adding to the requirements.] Yes, you are supposed to talk to your SM (and get a Blue Card) prior to contacting a MBC. But, that has nothing to do with the fact that some (or even all) of the necessary requirements may have already been accomplished while a registered Scout.

The only standing pre-requisite for earning any MB is that you must be a registered Scout. [Anybody --that's ANYBODY-- can complete a MB; but, only a registered Scout can earn a MB.] And the only restriction for completing any MB is your 18th b'day. If a MB has any pre-requisites, they will be specified within the MB requirements.

IMO, if a MBC refuses to accept something that was accomplished prior to the Scout's joining Scouting, I can't argue about that. But, that's not the point... the point is, a MBC is obligated to accept a registered Scout's verifiable work, regardless of when the Blue Card was obtained. Any MBC (or SM for that matter) who refuses to accept a registered Scout's "work" based on the Blue Card's date is cheating the Scout.

Look at it this way... Why is it okay to accept days camping for the Camping MB, but not some other requirement for some other MB? That's deviating from the standards. What if the SM of the Troop next door refuses to accept days camping prior to getting the Blue Card. Now we're deviating from the standards, again. That very complaint has been brought to this message board before, more than once. The MB requirements must be the same, across the board, across the nation. The Camping MB says nothing about getting the Blue Card after "X" number of days camping is allowed. Why not? Because it's not relevant. And if we make the Blue Card date relevant, for any MB requirements, we're not adhering to the standards.

Footnote: That is not to say, that any MBC can refuse to proceed with a Scout until he gets a signed Blue Card. But, that's proceedural matter, only... and, has nothing whatsoever to with advancement.

[Quailman]

I would think that getting a blue card might affect which requirements the scout must follow in the event that they change, though I'd expect a MB counselor to show some common sense in that regard.

As for accomplishing requirements before getting a card, Dog Care would be a prime example. If a puppy comes into a scout's life unexpectedly, he may already have taught it many of the commands before even remembering that there is a MB for dog care. He certainly wouldn't have to get yet another dog who did not know the commands after he got his blue card.

My only question about the original inquiry posed by bearpatrolleaderinctown is did the three of you raise one animal or three? It wasn't clear from your statement. The MB counselor would probably expect each of you to raise your own.

[RWSmith]

BTW, ronin718, FWIW, I wasn't trying to beat you up over the blue card thingy. I know where you're coming from... I used to believe the same thing... That's the way I was taught, as a Scout and as a Scouter... So, that's what I passed on, too. But, I was wrong. The UL's signature on (and date) is ONLY relevant for two reasons:

1. Verifying to the MBC which version of MB requirements the Scout must use (or, in some cases, may choose); and

2. Verifying to the MBC that the Scout has discussed the MB w/ his UL and has permission to contact a MBC.

It must NEVER be used as permission to earn a given MB, or as a starting point for accomplishing MB requirements! Since this is a bit OT, I'll leave it there. You can use the Search feature (at the top of the page) to find additional rants about Blue Cards.

Aim high, brother!

[ronin718]

Aim high, brother!

And go fast!!!

[Lynda J]

I am a counselor for Pets and would approve a lamb or goat. But you do need to get your counselors approvel first.
I had a boy used a potbelly pig, and one did a donkey.

I would, as the counselor wonder what you are going to do with this type of pet after you have shown it though. Will it be placed in a breeding program or simply remain a pet.

Since you will be working with farm type animals you might also look into
Animal Science.

[scoutaholic]

...Since you will be working with farm type animals you might also look into
Animal Science.

I was going to suggest Animal Science too, but I checked the requirements and didn't see how a goat won't qualify. Animal options for the Animal Science MB include Horses, Cattle, Hogs, Sheep, and Poultry.

After a second look, it does mention a goat in the Dairying option, and in requirement four about how to manage your animals. Since actually raising an animal is not required, goat experience may help with some of the requirements.

[RWSmith]

I would, as the counselor wonder what you are going to do with this type of pet after you have shown it though. Will it be placed in a breeding program or simply remain a pet.

Lynda J, please excuse me, in advance, for mentioning the (painfully absent) third option... dinner.

Which leads me to ponder... Just what do those people who "get my goat" do with it, once they've got it?

[Lynda J]

That was one of mythoughts also but I just didn't want to say it.

I can remember raising calves for 4H and knowing they would end up as steaks and hamburger meat.

When my kids were little they raised two beef calves. I was worried about them getting attached to them. We got lucky. These were the most unfriendly calves Ihave ever seen.
One night we were eating some really great T-bones and my daughter ask it this was Stupid or Idiot (calves names) I told her I didn't know. and her comment was "which ever it is it sure is good.

[PGH]

Nowhere is it written that getting the Blue Card must occur prior to accomplishing any MB requirement. [That would be adding to the requirements.] Yes, you are supposed to talk to your SM (and get a Blue Card) prior to contacting a MBC. But, that has nothing to do with the fact that some (or even all) of the necessary requirements may have already been accomplished while a registered Scout.

Requirement 1 of the Pets MB states explicitly that you have to get approval before the clock starts for the 4 months.

1. Present evidence that you have cared for a pet for 4 months. Get approval before you start.*

* Work done for other merit badges cannot be used for this requirement.

How do I know that the Scout has approval without the SM signature on the blue card?

[Mrw]

Requirement 1 of the Pets MB states explicitly that you have to get approval before the clock starts for the 4 months.

1. Present evidence that you have cared for a pet for 4 months. Get approval before you start.*

* Work done for other merit badges cannot be used for this requirement.

How do I know that the Scout has approval without the SM signature on the blue card?

Now being a mom, I read that to be a warning to the boy to get approval to HAVE a pet to take care of before bringing things home!

[PGH]

That occurred to me too!

[RWSmith]

Requirement 1 of the Pets MB states explicitly that you have to get approval before the clock starts for the 4 months.

1. Present evidence that you have cared for a pet for 4 months. Get approval before you start.*

* Work done for other merit badges cannot be used for this requirement.

How do I know that the Scout has approval without the SM signature on the blue card?

The "approval before you start" to which you are referring is the MBC's approval, not the SM's.

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[PGH]

And still says the 4 months starts when this approval is given. Ergo past experience with a pet is excluded, right?

[Quailman]

I would expect that to be up to a reasonable MBC's judgment. If a scout goes to him and says "I got a pet buffalo last month and just realized that there's a pet care MB," I don't see why the counselor wouldn't accept one month of care and feeding retroactively if he'd accept four going forward. Isn't the essence of the requirement that he care for a pet?

[PGH]

I'm not trying to be a pedant on this. I'm just making the point that this particular MB wants the scout to start the clock running when he decides to do the MB. It also specifically excludes time used for other MBs. Given that, I think it subtracts from the requirements to accept the goat raising from a previous year that was mentioned in the OP.

Addition: I just reread the original post. If the question is simply "can raising goats" qualify as pets, I say yes.