BSA lifeguard needs to be present for water sports? or not?

[yardhunter]

..................does a BSA cert. lifeguard need to be present for boys to work on MB such as motorboating, waterskiing etc??

I know they are there for canoeing, rowing etc. at BSA summer camps, however, since these aren't offered at camp, what about boys interested in doing these MB's other times of the year??

any thoughts? ...............see ya yardhunter

[wagionvigil]

Yes, Safety Afloat

[ICanCanoeCanU]

I disagree. It states in the Safety Afloat guidelines:

It is strongly recommended that all units have at least one adult or older youth member currently trained as a BSA Lifeguard to assist in the planning and conducting of all activity afloat.

And this is what it states in the Safe Swim Defense guidelines:

Lifeguards on Duty:
Swim only where there are lifeguards on duty. For unit swims in areas where lifeguards are not provided by others, the supervisor should designate two capable swimmers as lifeguards. Station them ashore, equipped with a lifeline (a 100-foot length of 3/8-inch nylon cord). In an emergency, one carries out the line; the other feeds it out from shore, then pulls in his partner and the person being helped. In addition, if a boat is available, have two people, preferably capable swimmers, take it out—one rowing and the other equipped with a 10-foot pole or extra oar. Provide one guard for every 10 people in the water, and adjust the number and positioning of guards as needed to protect the particular area and activity.

The best situation would be to always have a BSA certified Lifeguard on hand but it's not a mandated rule. There will always be times too when a MBC meets with a few boys to work on a badge such as canoeing and no lifeguard is present.
http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=by

[yardhunter]

I disagree.
The best situation would be to always have a BSA certified Lifeguard on hand but it's not a mandated rule. There will always be times too when a MBC meets with a few boys to work on a badge such as canoeing and no lifeguard is present.
http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=by

Thanks a lot for the response. I've been an avid boater for 22+ years, carry a full safety record of no injuries & recently signed up as a motorboating & watersking MBC. It would be useless to do this IF I can't help boys with these fun merit badges with these restrictions.

Is this info you gave published somewhere?? I'd love to know where to show anyone who may object to no BSA guards being present.


Thanks...................see ya yardhunter

[ASM-142]

Look in the Guide to Safe Scouting

[BM_Crawford]

I don't know why you wouldn't have a BSA Lifegaurd present anyway. It certaintly wouldn't hurt anything.

[yardhunter]

I don't know why you wouldn't have a BSA Lifegaurd present anyway. It certaintly wouldn't hurt anything.

I agree with having a guard, however, unlike most scouting units in larger cities, we don't have the luxury of just "finding" a BSA guard that easily in our little ol' Ohio River town. Even if we did, he still has to get together when we do...............or.................we have to try & work out using his schedule.

That's the tough part & the main reason I asked the original question.

Having earned the swimming MB, 1st aid MB, Emer. Prep MB, & the Eagle myself in 1977 along with 22+ years of safe motorboating, ( taking out my own kids & others) should qualify for something shouldn't it?? ..................see ya yardhunter

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Yardhunter - the above link will lead you to the guideline. Type in "Safety Afloat" in the search box, then scroll down to "Guide to Safe Scouting : Aquatics Safety"
Here's the link again ---- http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=by

[riverwalk]

Yard, that background would be most helpful and your attention to safety more important than background. But, if you ensure that you have the Safety Afloat and Safe Swim Defense training (or other Leadership has it), then you would qualify.

BSA recommends and encourages the BSA Lifeguard rating, therefore if you can find one locally it helps address this. But the training is extensive enough that Units can't hope to "get" it for an upcoming activity. But if you meet the Qualified Supervision part, you'll have some protection where Policy issues are concerned.

[BM_Crawford]

Having earned the swimming MB, 1st aid MB, Emer. Prep MB, & the Eagle myself in 1977 along with 22+ years of safe motorboating, ( taking out my own kids & others) should qualify for something shouldn't it?? ..................see ya yardhunter

As both a BSA and Red Cross lifegaurd, a councilor for swimming and lifesaving and first aid, plus having the badges myself, I feel confident to say that the training in the merit badges is not sufficient training to replace a lifegaurd. There is much more to learn than the badges offer you. I am not saying that you have to have one but in all possible cases I believe you should.

You see there are certain procedures and specific rescues for different occurences that take place in the water. For example if someone is under the water in the deep end with a possible neck injury what do you do? It very important up to how you even enter the water.

Your record of saftey is great. And I would feel confident to go out with you just by that. But I am simply stating that if it is possible to get a BSA Lifegaurd out there than it would be greatly advised.

[yardhunter]

......................crawford,

I agree with you point about the safety & have no argument with it. Believe it or not, I've actually had friends with us motorboating & their kids breaking my rules. When I get them to abide with the rules, they quit going out with me.

That's probably why aquatic MB's aren't earned often where we live. It's too difficult getting someone qualified to BSA standards to help.

I read this in the Safety Afloat:


Safety Afloat has been developed to promote boating and boating safety and to set standards for safe unit activity afloat. Before a BSA group may engage in an excursion, expedition, or trip on the water (canoe, raft, sailboat, motorboat, rowboat, tube, or other craft), adult leaders for such activity must complete Safety Afloat Training, No. 34159C, have a commitment card, No. 34242A, with them, and be dedicated to full compliance with all nine points of Safety Afloat.

Those 9 points are common sense we use while on the river.
I've already inquired with the council as to see if I can qualify or not for these commitment cards. After seeing some of the requirements, I see no problem.
However, I've been told over & over by others that water & shooting sports are a no-no for the average interseted parent to pursue.

If I pass, I'll pursue these water related MB's as a counselor.
If not, I'll remove my name from the MB counselor list & forget about it.

Thanks for everyone's input..............see ya yardhunter

[cballman]

In the guide to safe scouting which is the safety bible of scouting it DOES NOT require a lifeguard to do the waterskiing. and as for qualified supervision it strongly recommended that a BSA lifeguard be present but NOT required. I hope that answers questions but still leaves unanswered one. but that comes from the guide to safe scouting. the safety afloat recommends that a lifeguard be present but as long as the one in charge adheres to the safety afloat program then any other merit badge can be earned that way.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Isn't that what we've been saying?

[cballman]

Yes thats what has been said BUT Yardhunter seems to have other people telling him what he needs to do and it seems to be the wrong thing. so now he has the facts he can pursue the avenue that he needs to go. also Yardhunter what council are you in? I have taught the safe swim and safety afloat for the last three years and have had no one in our council question my teachings. also if you need to email me or if you ever come to Lexington I could maybe set up a time to go ove the programs with you and sign you cards.

[BM_Crawford]

I think you have me all wrong cballman. I was stating that whenever possible a bsa lifegaurd should be there. That is no longer in dispute.

[cballman]

Brian what I am saying is that if you read the last post by yardhunter then we might see the same thing. Yes it is strongly recommended for a lifeguard but not 100% necessery. yes I agree with you about the lifeguard 100% also but yardhunter also states that " he has been told over and over tha water and shooting sports are a no-no for the average interested parent to pursue" and to me that is a big boo-boo. thats the statement I was trying to get across is that if anyone wants to persue those things than go for it.

[yardhunter]

Yes thats what has been said BUT Yardhunter seems to have other people telling him what he needs to do and it seems to be the wrong thing. so now he has the facts he can pursue the avenue that he needs to go. also Yardhunter what council are you in? I have taught the safe swim and safety afloat for the last three years and have had no one in our council question my teachings. also if you need to email me or if you ever come to Lexington I could maybe set up a time to go ove the programs with you and sign you cards.

cballman,

I've probably seen you at your April ( Extreme Scouting ) campouts. We've been coming there every year for 4 years now. I'm part of the Simon Kenton Council. The rotten part is......... our council office is in Columbus Ohio, 3+ hours drive away. Kinda hard to get there if you know what I mean.

Yes, I'm interested in getting together with you & working something out. I'll be in touch...............see ya yardhunter

[yardhunter]

Yes thats what has been said BUT Yardhunter seems to have other people telling him what he needs to do and it seems to be the wrong thing. so now he has the facts he can pursue the avenue that he needs to go. also Yardhunter what council are you in? I have taught the safe swim and safety afloat for the last three years and have had no one in our council question my teachings. also if you need to email me or if you ever come to Lexington I could maybe set up a time to go ove the programs with you and sign you cards.

cballman,

I've probably seen you at your April ( Extreme Scouting ) campouts. We've been coming there every year for 4 years now. I'm part of the Simon Kenton Council. The rotten part is......... our council office is in Columbus Ohio, 3 hours away.

Yes, I'm interested in getting together with you & working something out. I haven't been on this forum long enough to figure out how to get anyone's email address yet.

Please email me anything to :

yardhunter@maysvilleky.net

& I'll get back with you very soon...............see ya yardhunter

[cballman]

Yard you more than likley didnt see me but th boss you might have seen because she handles registration for a lot of these things and my job gets in the way of scouting all the time. now sunday we are going to Xenia Ohio for a 50 mile bike ride. we would have went on Sat. but then there goes that job thing again

[yardhunter]

....................while snooping around on the internet, I found a BSA on-line water safety course which I passed both tests. The website allowed me to print a card saying I passed the Safe Swim Defense & Safety Afloat.

Here's the link if anyone wishes to try it for themselves:

http://www.scouting.org/pubs/aquatics/index2.html

By passing this test & getting these cards, does this allow me to now be "OK" with the BSA to be a motorboating & waterskiing MB counselor??

Your thoughts??

Thanks................see ya yardhunter