Paintball and Sports MB

[maricopasem]

Not to remount the dead horse from a different angle, but . . . . .

Can anyone see any reason why a scout participating on an organized Paintball team in an organized Paintball league competing in legitimate Paintball tournaments could not use that experience towards the Sports MB?

[scoutaholic]

Can anyone see any reason why a scout participating on an organized Paintball team in an organized Paintball league competing in legitimate Paintball tournaments could not use that experience towards the Sports MB?

One reason is that the Sports MB lists specific sports in which you can compete to qualify for the badge. We cannot add to, nor take away from the requirements as they are written. Therefore, if the boy wants to earn the Sports MB, he must compete in the sports listed in the requirements.

[wagionvigil]

Any sport not allowed by the BSA is non countable.

[maricopasem]

Don't forget the caveat to requirements 3 and 4:

(or any other recognized team sport approved in advance by your counselor, except boxing and karate)

because it seems to provide the proverbial loophole.

[ASM-142]

Don't forget the caveat to requirements 3 and 4:

(or any other recognized team sport approved in advance by your counselor, except boxing and karate)

because it seems to provide the proverbial loophole.

Being involved with the BSA you should not be looking for loopholes. Paint Ball is against BSA policy.

[JazerNorth]

Being involved with the BSA you should not be looking for loopholes. Paint Ball is against BSA policy.

... As a Unit ...

[DadScout]

I had to look this one up and although not related to paintball I found what looks like a conflict. First the paintball question.
G2SS states

Pointing any type of firearm (including paintball, dye, or lasers) at any individual is unauthorized.

So that looks pretty clear to me. Paintball should not be allowed to count.

Here's where I found the unrelated conflict by accident.
G2SS states

Varsity football teams and interscholastic or club football competition and activities are unauthorized activities.

OK no Football

Sports MB states

Take part for one full season as a member of an organized team in ONE of the following sports: baseball, basketball, bowling, cross-country, diving, fencing, field hockey, football......

Talk about confusing

[maricopasem]

I'm not trying to find a "loophole," I'm just trying to work the Merit Badge how it's written and without private interpretation.

[wagionvigil]

Scout troops cannot organize those teams Or play them at outings or troop meetings.

[maricopasem]

I'm aware that they can't participate in paintball as a patrol or troop activity. They also cannot organize a football team, but that doesn't preclude football from satisfying the requirement.

[FrankJ]

Interesting line of reasoning. At first I would have said no see G2S, but that would also apply to football. At the end of the day it would be your merit badge councilor's opinion that would count. It is certainly no more violent than fencing which also is probally not allowed as a patrol activity.

[evmori]

Paintball is banned by the BSA as a Scouting activity. Participation outside of Scouting isn't. It would be up to the MB counselor and if it is a true team sort, then it should be counted.

[616kayak]

For those of you interested in watching more tune into ESPn2 they have been airing a tournament trying to promote the sport.

Explain the following to your MBC:
Drills
Sponsorships
Tournaments
and if your team is run by its members explain what it has taught you.

There is no reason, if you educate your MBC, of course for not letting you use it. The g2ss is based on what you can do within the troop not your life. This requirement involves experiences outside of scouting.

[vpalango]

For those of you interested in watching more tune into ESPn2 they have been airing a tournament trying to promote the sport.

Explain the following to your MBC:
Drills
Sponsorships
Tournaments
and if your team is run by its members explain what it has taught you.

There is no reason, if you educate your MBC, of course for not letting you use it. The g2ss is based on what you can do within the troop not your life. This requirement involves experiences outside of scouting.

Hmmmm.... Merit Badges are "outside of scouting"? I certainly don't agree with that. Merit Badges are supposed to allow a scout to demonstrate skills both in and outside of scouting, but they are part of the scouting program, and when you are working on a merit badge (and in your daily life) you are doing it, at least in part, as a scout.

Also, I'm not aware of ANY MB which in any way violates/circumvents the G2SS. (I am willing to be corrected here.)

So, when acting in a scouting context, I don't think it's appropriate to allow someone to circumvent the rules of scouting. So in my opinion, Paintball is a non-starter for fulfilling a MB requirement.

Just as a general commentary (which I'm sure is out there elsewhere in various forms)... I fully support the ban on Paintball in scouting. I was brought up with guns, and it was taught to me before I was ever permitted to even touch a gun that you should NEVER put a gun, toy gun, anything that looks like a gun, at another person, even in play. Doing so, breaks down some natural inhibitions that we shouldn't mess with.

Just as a story, my Dad caught me pointing a cap gun at a friend, and he didn't allow me to shoot with him for 6 months. That's how serious it was to him, and now to me.

The G2SS isn't being arbitrary in this case. It's removing an activity which has some (admitedly manageable) safety risks, as well as promoting safe use of firearms. Don't be confused, a paintball gun is a firearm, and I personally have been and continue to be against anything which promotes use of firearms in an inappropriate manner.

(stepping off the soapbox )

In summary, while I'm not the final authority, Paintball is a specifically prohibited activity in scouting, and it shouldn't be an allowable activity in any scouting context.

[scoutaholic]

...There is no reason, if you educate your MBC, of course for not letting you use it. The g2ss is based on what you can do within the troop not your life. This requirement involves experiences outside of scouting.

Hmmmm.... Merit Badges are "outside of scouting"? I certainly don't agree with that. ... Also, I'm not aware of ANY MB which in any way violates/circumvents the G2SS. ... In summary, while I'm not the final authority, Paintball is a specifically prohibited activity in scouting, and it shouldn't be an allowable activity in any scouting context.

I'll have to disagree with vpalango here. While paintball, and many other activities, are not allowed as scouting activities. The G2SS does not prohibit such activities in the lives of a scout. As SM, I can't plan or encourage paintball, football, etc, etc, etc. However, Football is expressly listed as a viable team sport in the sports MB requirements. Obviously the requirement allows for this team activity to be done outside of ones scouting experience. Several of the other sports listed would also not be allowed as scout activities based on the G2SS. As stated above, if the Young Man can justify his paintball team as a viable sport, and the MBC agrees, then it should be allowed.

[evmori]

In summary, while I'm not the final authority, Paintball is a specifically prohibited activity in scouting, and it shouldn't be an allowable activity in any scouting context.

If a Scout participates on a paintball team and that team meets the qualifications of the MB, then why shouldn't it be counted? The only two sports prohibited to meet the qualifications (#3 & #4) are boxing & karate.

[wagionvigil]

Paintball as a sport is fairly new. Possibly when the Sports MB is re written it will be addressed. Last year about this time there was a paintball thread. That thread caused major problems for the forum and the moderators.

[maricopasem]

Hmmmm.... Merit Badges are "outside of scouting"? I certainly don't agree with that. Merit Badges are supposed to allow a scout to demonstrate skills both in and outside of scouting, but they are part of the scouting program, and when you are working on a merit badge (and in your daily life) you are doing it, at least in part, as a scout.

That doesn't make sense to me. Every aspect of a young man's life is not dominated by BSA. Take the Scholarship MB, for example. Does he get his grades in Scouts? What if his extracurricular activity is membership in a Paintball Club (which exists at the school where I teach)? Do we disallow that? That seems unfair and capricious.

[FrankJ]

I played paint ball back in the 1980s. There were organized teams & an association then. Properly done it is as safe as any moderate risk sport. I have been hurt a lot worse on my mountain bike. I quit because my friends got into an arms race & I didn't want to spend the money.

Football is prohibited in the same section of G2S as paintball, but is specifically listed in the sports merit badge. I both as prohibiton against a patrol or troop activity. You would not be a allowed to form a patrol football team to get the sports merit badge, but you can play on your school team as one of the requirements. Same with paint ball, MBC willing.

BTW I take gun safety very seriously. Guns should never be pointed at anything you are unwilling to shoot.