Sports MB

[freebyrd1964a]

Does anyone have an explaination as to why Karate and boxing are not considered approved sports for the Sports Merit Badge?

It just seems strange that these two are disallowed when other Martial arts and more dangerous sports are allowed.

[PaulSWolf]

Does anyone have an explaination as to why Karate and boxing are not considered approved sports for the Sports Merit Badge?

It just seems strange that these two are disallowed when other Martial arts and more dangerous sports are allowed.

The fololowing is from the Guide to Safe Scouting http://www.usscouts.org/safety/g2ssIX.html#RTFToC49

Unauthorized and Restricted Activities

The following activities have been declared unauthorized and restricted by the Boy Scouts of America:

* Boxing, karate, and related martial arts-except judo, aikido, and Tai Chi-are not authorized activities.

Also see the following page:

http://usscouts.org/advance/cubscout/sp ... arate.html

While it specifically addresses Cub Scout Sports, it is equally applicable to the Sports Merit Badge

[freebyrd1964a]

Thanks for the information PaulSWolf,

While I strongly disagree with the restrictions against the Martial Arts, I can at least understand how they were put in place. Misconceptions about the danger and violence involved in the martial arts themselves

For the record sport karate (under the direction of a qualified Sensei) is no more dangerous than any other sport. Personally, I've ripped my quadracepts and broke my nose in baseball. I've only come home mildly brused from a karate tournament. I hold a green belt in karate and a yellow belt in judo. My son also holds a yellow belt in karate and a white belt in judo.

The reason that I asked the question to begin with is because he has no interest in the organized sports offered in our home town to young people. He played baseball for a few years only to become the teams waterboy and batboy. This was not due to the coach, but to my son not caring to participate. Other sports had similar results. But the martial arts, my son loves. He hasn't advanced to the level that he should, but karate is the only sport that he's ever took time to practice at home. It seems a shame that he can not use this to help advance in his boy scouting.

The solution that I've suggested to him was simple. I do work part time in the local bowling alley. If he waits until next September he an join our youth league (takes care of requirment 3). He is also scheduled to participate in an upcoming Judo tournament (takes care of requirment 4). While he still doesn't care for the thought of bowling for a season, it's that or he will not earn this particular badge.

[hops_scout]

I dont disagree with you that baseball is dangerous and that martial arts arent as dangerous. I cant have an opinion on the martial arts b/c I've never really seen them or participated.

I actually consider baseball to be one of the most dangerous sports.

Its all about how people see it.

[wagionvigil]

Dangerous?
Check out Mountain Boarding
http://www.mtbz.com

This is being offered at the 2005 Jamboree

[hops_scout]

Most people probably wouldnt consider baseball all that dangerous. I've actually gotten hurt more playing baseball in one summer than I have in 4 years of football; 2 of which were high school football.

In 4th grade, I split my pinkie finger on my throwing hand when throwing the ball back to the pitcher and my hand met the batter's bat.

Later that summer, I got hit with a pitch in the right eye batting right-handed. 3 hours in the ER and a nice black eye.

[Lynda J]

It is sad that scouting does not allow the martial arts. But I kinda understand.
My only knowledge about any of the martial arts is through
two of my customes that teach and have one boy in my troop that takes.
The thing is that since he started taking he is much more focused and centered kid.
This is one of the things that the customers tell me. Kids that have attention problems normally do very well taking martial arts. It helps them learn to focus and helps them learn to control their emotions.

[freebyrd1964a]

While I do understand why the BSA does not wish the packs and troops from organizing martial art classes and such (insurance liability cost of equipment and all). It makes absolutly no sense as to why they do not allow individual scouts with parental permission and who are members of qualified martial art programs to use sport martial arts to fullfill the requirments of the sports merit badge. With the safety equipment and following the rules of tournament point karate a child is in no more danger than he would be in a fencing tournament, or as said before baseball. (some of my worst injuries as a child was on a baseball diamond).

[Lynda J]

Why not contact National and ask point blank why they do not accept the martial arts?

One of Kevin's friends is still in a leg cast from a broken leg playing soccer. Has had it on for 3 months and they expect another 2-3 before he will be totally cast free.

[wagionvigil]

Take part in ONE of the following sports on a competitive basis in two organized meets or tournaments: archery, badminton, bait or fly casting, bowling, canoeing, cycling, diving, fencing, fishing, golf, gymnastics, handball, horsemanship, horseshoes, judo, orienteering, paddleball, rifle or shotgun shooting, sailing, skating (ice or roller), skiing, swimming, table tennis, tennis, track and field, waterskiing, or wrestling (or any other recognized sport approved in advance by your counselor, except boxing and karate).*
Looks like the only exceptions are boxing and karate

[freebyrd1964a]

LindaJ,
I have written National and asked for an explaination plus a waiver. I'm not holding my breath for either. I figure as slow as buracracies work, Martin will be a scout leader with my grandson will be a scout.

[commish3]

I do not speak for the BSA but I can relate a conversation I had with a Director in the Boy Scout Division a couple summers ago.

it is not a matter of the activity being dangerous. Scouts do lots of dangerous activities. It is a question of, do we want to present an image of Scouting teaching scouts to injure other people.

For that reason combative activities are restricted or prohibited as are activities involving aiming weapons at people or images of people.

It simply is not in the best interest of the program to represent itself in that manner. In addition, the aims and mission of the BSA can still be achieved even in the absence of those activities.

I hope this helps explain the situation.

[freebyrd1964a]

Commish that would make sense if fencing wasn't an approved sport. The object of fencing, as we all know is to stab at your opponent with a foil (weapon). Yes protective gear is utilized, but gear is also used in sport martial arts.

There are definatly inconsistances in these rules and quite frankly they are biased against the martial arts. Yes I know that I'll will not change things in this forum. Even with writing my letter, I more than likely will not change things, but it's worth a shot in my opinion.

[commish3]

I apologize freebyrd, while I feel I could explain the policy further I do not feel I can do so comfortably based on previous experience here. I invite you to share your concern with the National Office in Irving Tx. Address your concern to the Director of Boy Scout Advancement.

[Guneukitschik]

Take part in ONE of the following sports on a competitive basis in two organized meets or tournaments: archery, badminton, bait or fly casting, bowling, canoeing, cycling, diving, fencing, fishing, golf, gymnastics, handball, horsemanship, horseshoes, judo, orienteering, paddleball, rifle or shotgun shooting, sailing, skating (ice or roller), skiing, swimming, table tennis, tennis, track and field, waterskiing, or wrestling (or any other recognized sport approved in advance by your counselor, except boxing and karate).*
Looks like the only exceptions are boxing and karate

What's the difference between Judo and Karate? Just Curious?

[freebyrd1964a]

I appologize commish, as you can see this is something that I do feel strongly about. I have sent letters to the BSA and am now waiting thier response.


Guneukitschik,

The difference in the two Judo and karate is that Judo is a grappling art. Under sports rules there are few strikes. Karate is a striking art where as punches and kicks are utilized. Judo is scored by throwing your opponent to the ground and pinning him or her. Karate is scored by touching legal areas of your opponent's body (primarliy front torso)

[PaulSWolf]

Judo is a method of defense. Karate is a method of offense.

In Judo, the objective is to defend against an attacker. In Karate the objective is to complete an attack.

[freebyrd1964a]

Sorry PaulSWolf,
That's a common misconception. Both Arts can be misused and be used offensively. However properly taught they are both defensive.

Sport Judo is the martial arts worlds answer to weastling, it's throwing one's opponent then pinning them to the floor or mat. Karate utilizes strikes to score points on ones opponent.

[freebyrd1964a]

Ok, I just got word back from the BSA. No surprise, Martin is not going to be issued a waiver. I was expecting this so no biggie. I was turned off somewhat as to the explaination. Even though I asked, the only explanation was that Karate was a prohibited activity by the provisions of the Guide to Safe Scouting. OK I knew this that's why I asked for the waiver to begin with. My question was why karate was and is prohibited when other offensive and or dangerous sports were allowed.

Yes I know that the danger isn't the primary reason, but neither could the mear fact that the martial arts can be used to attack if desired. Fencing as we all know falls into this catagory also.

I know that the world will not fall apart if I don't get the explanation that I want. I know there are bigger battles around, but I think that the old Sgt in me is coming out. I don't like incomplete answers and I want to know. Therefore I'll keep bothering them until I get at least a decent answer. I'm sure that I will not be happy with the answer, but I'll except it as long as there is a real reason that isn't in conflict with another reason.

[RWSmith]

Even though I asked, the only explanation was that Karate was a prohibited activity by the provisions of the Guide to Safe Scouting. OK I knew this that's why I asked for the waiver to begin with. ….I think that the old Sgt in me is coming out. I don't like incomplete answers and I want to know. Therefore I'll keep bothering them until I get at least a decent answer.

Sarge,

You weren't given an incomplete answer; your were just plain blown off. (Insulted even, I'd say.) At least commish3 got a legitimate answer, albeit verbal. I would encourage you to persist in this matter. Respond to National, requesting a legitimate explanation and justification--considering your perspective and comparisons, you are certainly entitled to both.

For the record, this issue does not personally affect or otherwise interest me. I just think it's well, maybe not politically incorrect, but let's say "socially" incorrect. It's a matter of perception, we already know it. Heck, I'd have to agree with the others who've already said as much, I too, have always considered Jujitsu to be defensive in nature, just as I have considered Karate to be offensive. Even so, freebyrd1964a, you’ve made a fair and sensible point. And you are entitled to a respectable answer.