BALOO/Wolf training

[ccjj]

I was wondering if anyone had an opinion about running BALOO and Wolf training at the same time? Our council is considering doing just that in the spring, and was wondering what everyone else thought.

ccjj

[riverwalk]

Are you saying Leader Specific on the same night, or blended?

[ccjj]

Nothing to do with Leader Specific. This BALOO (cub pack camping) and Wolf (Webelos Outdoor Leader Fundamentals.)

[Nuts4Scouts]

I see no reason not to run BALOO and OLSWL (Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders) the same day, at the same place. They can even get together for a foil pack lunch. But that is it.

They are two completely different trainings and should NOT be combined any more than with a group lunch.

[WVBeaver05]

They are two completely different trainings and should NOT be combined any more than with a group lunch.

Interesting. I find them to be nearly identical. The exception is the differences in how much of each subject is appropriate for the particular age group.

YiS

[DadScout]

Our Baloo is not given at the same time as OWL (Outdoor WEBELOS Leader). However OWL has been given at the same time as OLS (Outdoor Leader Skills). It's at the same time/place using many(not all) of the same training stations but the content of the stations were different, directed at the WEBELOS program. They also didn't overnight where the Boy Scout Leaders in OLS did. We've now moved to a new delivery method where Boys Scouts do the training in a more local setting (not at camp) like a park. It's met with some success and aided in WEBELOS to Scout transition because the WEBELOS leaders have more interaction with the Boys from the Troops. Naturally the whole thing is fairly well planned, they boys are picked carefully, and trained leaders make sure that the syllabus is delivered.

So there's no reason that Baloo and OWL (aka WOLF) can't be done at the same time using the same trainers so long as it's still directed to the right audiance

[ccjj]

They will be running both courses together, as a combined Cub Scout Outdoor Training. Participants will be coming out Saturday morning and leaving Sunday morning. They will receive trained cards for both BALOO and Wolf trainings. The schedule is being rewrote to combine sessions from both trainings into one.

As a trainer, I am having a challenge with this. The content is similar, but the audience is different between the 2 courses. The Wolf portion is more indepth than some of the BALOO areas. There are things that a Webelos leader needs to know that might not necessarily apply to pack camping. In the training, we are going to need to specify over and over that only the Webelos can camp as a den, among other things.

We will be having a meeting of the trainers on Thursday. We will see how it goes.

ccjj

[riverwalk]

OK, Sorry, just never saw it called WOLF before. Yes we've done a BALOO/OWL training as well. Works together or separate.

[WVBeaver05]

As a trainer, I am having a challenge with this. The content is similar, but the audience is different between the 2 courses. The Wolf portion is more indepth than some of the BALOO areas. There are things that a Webelos leader needs to know that might not necessarily apply to pack camping. In the training, we are going to need to specify over and over that only the Webelos can camp as a den, among other things.

Yes, we have done this. In fact we have combined these two with the Boy Scout Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills. And, yes, it is a challenge for the trainers (and the schedulers). And, yes, you do need to repeat what things are appropriate to each group. In our case, the training coordinators discussed this with each trainer before the course and reminded them before each session. Additionally, we allocated extra time at the beginning of the course to show the Ages and Stages video from New Leader Essentials and hold a short discussion of the Age Appropriate Activities outline (which we gave a copy of to each participant).

Our first course with all 3 combined was last spring. The next is this coming weekend. We received some significant resistance originally. However, the feedback from the first group was very positive.

Our initial reason was to optimize the number of participants covered by the trainers who were giving their time. (It was disappointing to repeatedly hold training where there were more trainers than students.) However, after holding the first course we found other benefits that we had not expected. Primarily, there was a great deal of interaction between the students from different levels of Scouting. This lead to some very in depth discussions and a greater understanding of the other programs. Additionally, there was some discussion around things that both Webelos and Boy Scout leaders could do to enhance Webelos to Scout transitions.

The other comment that we got was that the participants actually had a better understanding of the activity progression as they could see it in terms of where each level fit in the overall program. This addressed the biggest concern that we were faced with (i.e. that the participants would be so confused that they wouldn't know what was appropriate for the younger age levels).

In short. It worked well.

YiS

[joat]

No BSA trainings are "the same". Different trainings are targeted for different groups of leaders with different needs. Syllabi are different and cover different topics.

The ONLY reason the training committee "combines" trainings is they cannot be bothered to deliver training the way it was designed. Shortcutting the system shortchanges the recipients and results in partially trained adult leaders.

[ThunderingWind]

The ONLY reason the training committee "combines" trainings is they cannot be bothered to deliver training the way it was designed. Shortcutting the system shortchanges the recipients and results in partially trained adult leaders.

See the posting above yours. It would seem this group has found some very good, positive things from combining the training. I had OWL and OLS at a combined long weekend seesion (6 PM Friday to 5 PM Sunday)

[cballman]

ok guys I will play the devil now. when I went through all my training a few years ago it seemed like their were enough people helping out with training. now look at it when they schedule training it seems that their are more people wanting to GET trained then their is people willing to help out spending their time to help out with training. now if you look at the training staff for these events you will most likley see that these same people have helped put on most of YOUR training. the ones that are not there are ones that have finally got burned out or wife or husband is tired of them not being home. now the bad part we keep saying "Every Scout Deserves A Trained Leader" why dont some of you ask to help out with training for a couple of years. Yes I did and after about 4-5 years I finally got to step back a little. Yes I still do some training but my work schedule wont let me do what I would really like to do. also another little bit we teach our kids how to do something then for them to really understand the item we have them teach other kids the same things. so then why not us as adults follow our words and so that we can learn we need to teach. thank yall for listening to my training lecture.

[ccjj]

One of the main reasons for the combination of the 2 courses, is that the SE feels that we do not need to spend 2 weekends or more sometimes per month conducting trainings. That takes the trainers away from their families, not to mention the people taking the trainings. Most of our trainings are conducted by the same few people. However, our goal this next year will be to include at least 2 new people per course on the training team staff. That way the experienced trainers can help the new trainers along.

The more I think about, the more I realize that it can be done. It will take some extra work on everyone's part, but it is possible. We will be meeting monthly to work on things until the training in April.

[riverwalk]

Some of our reasons for both on the same day, relates to people. Attendees that need both can make one day or weekend out of it, likewise some of the Trainers can make that time work for them.

Bottom line besides finding willing Trainers, is setting a schedule that will get your Scouters trained. Get 'em to water is the first step even if they're not horses.

[wagionvigil]

Training needs to be Mandatory!

[joat]

It would seem this group has found some very good, positive things from combining the training. I had OWL and OLS at a combined long weekend seesion (6 PM Friday to 5 PM Sunday)

Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders (OLSWL) is designed to run in conjuction with Introduction to Outdoor Leaders Skills (IOLS). Combining the 3 den leader specific trainings, or Pack Committee with Cubmaster training, or combining BALOO with anything is detrimental to those being trained.

[joat]

As some of you pointed out, getting volunteers to conduct training events is critical. If the problem is staffing, the solution is to recruit qualified staff. Combining trainings is not a solution.