Required Training

[wagionvigil]

I am a firm believer in Training. And the BSA unlioke other organizations does not require training they suggest training. A well trained leader usually has a better chance of succeeding and that is training for all adult positions. I believe that training must be required and that if you do not take tyhe required training within in a set amount of time you cannot be a leader.

[wagionvigil]

Hey ifyou are going to vote post a rely as to why you voted the way you did. There are troops camping and the leaders have No BSA Camping Training there are troops doing water sports with NO BSA Trained Life Guards or SSD same for CLimbing. There are a lot of leaders that do not understand Climb on Safely and Age APpropriate Actives for Climbing. Even the GSUSA Requires Training or you cannot do certain activities. Not a Slam! Just a statement of Fact!

[scoutaholic]

BSA has already made some training required.

Most activities require a youth protection trained leader. (Part of the tour permit).
Watersports require BSA Lifeguard, Safe Swim Defense, and/or Safety Afloat.
Climbing requires Climb On Safely and BSA Climbing Instructor certification.
Shooting sports require NRA/BSA instructor certification.
Etc.

I doubt that the requirement is the problem in most cases. Many leaders don't understand that such training is required, or they don't care about the requirement.

I would not have a problem with requiring some basic training within a reasonable time after registration, however I doubt it would help much. I think most good leaders get the training when they can. I think the others would continue to do things their way regardless of having been to a training class. (I could site specific examples of this, but I won't waste your time.)

[Billiken]

In the Cleveland Council, the unit leader must be fully trained for the position or the unit will not be allowed to re-charter.

[RMM]

In the Cleveland Council, the unit leader must be fully trained for the position or the unit will not be allowed to re-charter.

Would this be an "added requirement"

I would like to see all trained. After doing the intro training for Woodbadge, I would like to see all SM and ASM Woodbadge trained.

However, how many units would not be able to recharter because an adult leader did not go to training? What would happen to the Scouts? Our SM, ASMs, and CC are trained. A number of Committee Members have not completed training. Yet, we need them and they do very well on BORs. Our CC runs a good Committee meeting.

should be -- Yes
must be -- no

[wagionvigil]

Not a new requirement as many councils are doing it on their own under "Risk Management" GPC has something that is required maybe one of the guys from the Burgh can fill us in.

[Mad Dog]

Proper training is extremely important. What would be the effect of requiring training? How many leaders would just drop out instead of getting trained? I have been trying unsuccessfully for over 2 years to take the SM specific training. In my area it is only offered a few times per year and it always conflicts with a Council/District/Troop activity. Also, I have seen a number of leaders who have taken all the training available up to and including Woodbadge and they are still horribible leaders. So after reviewing al of that I would not vote not to make training mandatory.

[cballman]

I voted Yes. I have also seen Woodbadge trained leaders who totally have no clue how to be a leader. they expect the kids to be perfect little adults and wont let them try to enjoy being a child. but then if BSA requires training for leaders then they should support the council and make training more readily available to us to use. after being back in scouts as a leader I took the time to get trained. most people think that just because they are an EAGLE SCOUT they know all about scouts. WRONG scouting changes and sometimes we miss the boat and try to do things like we did in the old days. but times and scouts has changed so much in the past few years we need to keep abreast of the new info and changes in protocal.

[ASM-142]

It only makes sense for leaders to be trained. This ensures the integrity and consistency of the program.

[Chief J]

I believe that all leaders should be trained, however I also beleive that the trainers need to actually train the leaders.

I have attended many training courses that I walked away from and thought what a waste of time because the trainer was unprepared or didn't care about what he was doing.

Before getting involved in Scouting as an adult, I was active as a youth, and also spent 8 years in the Army. When I became involved as a leader at the cub scout level, i attended the training. As a SM I have also attended the training. I will say that my SM training was deplorable. Many of the trainers didn't know or didn't care. If I relied on the orienteering information I was "taught" at the Outdoor session of SM training, I would never get to where i wanted to be.

I also found our commissioner training to be a waste of a day due to the quality of our trainers.

I hope my experiences are not indicitive of BSA training on a whole, but in our district it is a disaster.

Sorry for the soapbox, but yes I feel all leaders should be trained, however if that is the law, how many leaders will the BSA lose because they did not get the prescribed training?

also what level of training should be required? is it Basic, Wood Badge, etc.?

Chief J

[Nuts4Scouts]

I have attended many training courses that I walked away from and thought what a waste of time because the trainer was unprepared or didn't care about what he was doing.

When you filled out the evaluation sheet at the end of each of your trainings, did you mark the box that stated - YES, I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN STAFFING THIS TRAINING COURSE ?

While feedback is a gift, being a part of the solution is even better!

BSA makes some training mandatory already, but does not follow thru with many consequences. The Adult Application states that the volunteer is expected to complete Youth Protection training within 90 days. What happens if they do not? Does anyone even know this rule exists?

I feel that BSA is moving toward putting more and more training on line to make it easier for volunteers to access. This is a good thing, although I feel that the interaction between trainer & trainee, and the chance to get numerous questions answered is invaluable.

[lifescoutforlife]

I believe every scout deserves a trained leader/leaders. I went to training to find out what changed in the 20+ years I was not in scouting and believe me a lot has changed. I'm lucky enough to be in a troop that is highly trained in a lot of different areas. But I watch other troops that think they are doing the right thing and don't even have a clue and won't listen to anyone or take training because they believe that they know it all. Some ASM's in the other troops have went to leader training but will not say a thing to the untrained SM because they just don't want to start problems. But really they are letting more problems being created.

[pipestone1991]

In my short scouting career (5 years in cubs, 4 1/2 years in boy scouts).....I find that experienced scouters usually make the best decisions....not "trained" ones, am I writing off training? Of course not! But I would take a more experienced "untrained" leader over a less experienced "trained" leader anyday.

[Chief J]

IWhen you filled out the evaluation sheet at the end of each of your trainings, did you mark the box that stated - YES, I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN STAFFING THIS TRAINING COURSE ?

While feedback is a gift, being a part of the solution is even better!

Yes, I have checked the box and told the trainers I would be interested. Best part of the process is: On the Commissioner side of the house the District is getting ready to offer Unit Commissioner Basic Training in a couple of months. My ADC asked me to help teach due to the fact I am a part time college instructor as well as already being trained. I told him I would be happy to. When he discussed with the DC, the response was "NO I only want ADC's on my teaching staff and he's only a Unit Commissioner"

I want to apologize for my soapbox, but training is a two way street, if we want leaders to seek training, the training must be meaningful and well prepared. I firmly believe people will not waste their time and come come to training if they are not going to get anything out of it.

I agree with Pipestone, an experienced leader will generally make a better decision than a trained leader with little experience in most cases.

Just my opinions, and we all know what they are worth,
Chief J

[FrankJ]

I voted no. I am a big believer in training. I have not regretted any course that I have taken in scouting. Some were better presented than others, but i have always found something positive, even if it only it was the people I met. Units with trained leaders general do better than untrained leaders from what I have observed. Untrained leaders are less likely to get the boy led part of scouting.

Having said that some troops would not exist if all the leader had to be fully trained. Not all leaders have the luxury to take the time to take all the training.

[WVBeaver05]

My vote is YES. And I do belive that it should be. Now, which course and how soon is something that needs to be addressed.

Like someone else said, I have never had a training where I didn't learn anything (some came kind of close, though).

I do agree that if it is required, then the Council/District MUST make the training available. We try hard to do that. In our Council, it is currently a requirement that the top level leader (SM, CM, etc.) be fully trained in their position for the Unit to be allowed to recharter. I have been told that this coming year that will be extended to the CC.

I do not have a problem with this. It is important that the leader be exposed to the processes that BSA wants to be used.

One last thought for the training - they need to be FUN just like the youth programs. Why, because adults put a lot of effort into Scouting and they deserve to have some FUN too. Otherwise, they probably won't last, or won't be as good as they could be.

Those are some of my thoughts on the subject. As a frequent trainer, I could go on for pages on this subject.

YiS

[WVBeaver05]

In my short scouting career (5 years in cubs, 4 1/2 years in boy scouts).....I find that experienced scouters usually make the best decisions....not "trained" ones, am I writing off training? Of course not! But I would take a more experienced "untrained" leader over a less experienced "trained" leader anyday.

I would want to qualify this somewhat to define "experienced". If we are talking about "experienced" in the BSA methods, OK. If we are talking about "experienced" in camping, backpacking, etc. then maybe not.

Remember, Scouting sets some very stringent standards and addresses a lot of things that are beyond the skills needed to camp or whatever. Tracing every decision back to the Scout Oath and Scout Law are the keys.

Again, my opinion.

YiS

[ICanCanoeCanU]

I voted no to anymore mandatory training, although I too agree that training is one of the most essential pieces to troop leadership.

This is a tricky question because it was left open to should any training be mandatory. I think some of the training is fine. In our council some already is. But to require a lot of training for any adult leader is too much, I think. I agree with comments others here have made about some of the leaders with the extensive training who are still not the best leaders, and other adults who have only had a course or two, be great. Too many adults would shy away from the program right from the start and others would just not have the time or want to devote the scheduled time. Our council holds quite a few training events on weekends and sometimes is quite a distance from where our troop and leaders live. I’ve also experienced adults that are great with the kids and the program at troop level but are hesitant to get involved at levels above. We had a family volunteer during the cub years, and then in scouts a bit, that had so much knowledge and the most patience with the boys, but both the wife and husband refused to fill any positions which required them to go to training. I will not agree or disagree with their reasoning except to share with you that they did not have faith in the overall organization. They were very helpful anytime they were asked, and even ran many large events for the pack, but they just didn’t like the politics above that. I would also hate to see the folks that would be intimidated and run prior to learning much about the program. Sometimes people grow once they get involved. Other families could run leaving a possible scout out of luck to continue.

Just don’t think it’s a good idea.

[wagionvigil]

There are Scoutmasters and ASM that have NEVER taken training for their positions. What I am asking should the Troop Leadership be required to be trained in their positions. SCOutmaster Fundamentals,SSD,CLimb on Safely,SAfety Afloat, YPT

[mt_goodrich]

In my long association with Scouting (over 30 years), I believe training is important. I voted that training should be mandatory, but I know that it would be difficult on some units because their leaders might not have the time to go thru training.

I believe that any training someone can get is a good thing. Although I am just an Asst. Scoutmaster, next weekend I will be attending Commissioner's College. And I am paid and signed up to attend Wood Badge in October.