Important Changes to YPT, effective June 1, 2010....

[smtroop168]

I kinda view the required training as a "Condition of Employment" . You can substitute "volunteer" for "employment". The BSA like other organizations or employers can require their members to complete certain paperwork before they are hired. My Daughter just was hired at our scout shop as a PT worker for the summer and she had to acknowledge a 6 page Employee Code of Contact rules.
She's now a National employee so she gets Bob Mazucca's hotline number. But I digress.

They can also refuse to let someone join the BSA and dismiss those who they deem not to be complying with their regulations. I don't know if this is a knee jerk reaction or a follow on result from the Oregon lawsuit. Doesn't matter. Certainly the rollout of new policies/procedures/merit badges etc has not been real good recently. Announcing something over the holiday weekend with an effective date of the following Tuesday is weak.

Will we lose some registered folks, sure. Those that truly want to be part of this great organization will comply. We probably don't need the rest of the whiners. I'm sure the BSA Risk Management team has looked at all angles on this to arrive at this course of action. Did our Diocese lose volunteers when they instituted their YPT rules? We didn't. They even agreed to use the BSA YPT as a substitute for theirs. Unfortunately for us, the BSA lawyers said no...keep doing your own thing.

[AquilaNegra2]

One of the first rules you learn with volunteers is that you can't (and shouldn't) treat them like employees - they're not.

My concern is not with those who have regular contact with the youth, but with those experts whose contact is more casual. We lost MBCs with the mandatory SSN; we'll lose more with the mandatory training. "Hey, will you give up a dozen hours to counsel this boy for free? Good! Your papers, please; ..er, can I have you fill out this form with your SSN? And, can I get you to take this training?"

The "Screw 'em, who needs 'em" attitude is appalling. Who needs them? WE do. Or, we do if we want to give the boys the best opportunities. If we are satisfied with "good enough", we can insulate them with parents-only lists [not bashing parents as MBCs; just that there are a lot of topics most parents are unqualified for].

I understand it's the fault of the damnable lawyers, but what I see is BSA becoming less and less about what's good for the boys.

[evmori]

One of the first rules you learn with volunteers is that you can't (and shouldn't) treat them like employees - they're not.

My concern is not with those who have regular contact with the youth, but with those experts whose contact is more casual. We lost MBCs with the mandatory SSN; we'll lose more with the mandatory training. "Hey, will you give up a dozen hours to counsel this boy for free? Good! Your papers, please; ..er, can I have you fill out this form with your SSN? And, can I get you to take this training?"

The "Screw 'em, who needs 'em" attitude is appalling. Who needs them? WE do. Or, we do if we want to give the boys the best opportunities. If we are satisfied with "good enough", we can insulate them with parents-only lists [not bashing parents as MBCs; just that there are a lot of topics most parents are unqualified for].

I understand it's the fault of the damnable lawyers, but what I see is BSA becoming less and less about what's good for the boys.

If these volunteers don't want to attend the required training then they can't sign up. Real simple. Just because they are parents doesn't make them good adult leaders and role models.

[smtroop168]

One of the first rules you learn with volunteers is that you can't (and shouldn't) treat them like employees - they're not.

My concern is not with those who have regular contact with the youth, but with those experts whose contact is more casual. We lost MBCs with the mandatory SSN; we'll lose more with the mandatory training. "Hey, will you give up a dozen hours to counsel this boy for free? Good! Your papers, please; ..er, can I have you fill out this form with your SSN? And, can I get you to take this training?"

The "Screw 'em, who needs 'em" attitude is appalling. Who needs them? WE do. Or, we do if we want to give the boys the best opportunities. If we are satisfied with "good enough", we can insulate them with parents-only lists [not bashing parents as MBCs; just that there are a lot of topics most parents are unqualified for].





I understand it's the fault of the damnable lawyers, but what I see is BSA becoming less and less about what's good for the boys.

I know volunteers are not employees but you can hold them to standards. MBC are required to fill out apps and get trained:

From scouting.org "If you are not yet a merit badge counselor, it is easy to become a volunteer. You will need to register with the Boy Scouts of America, through your BSA local council. This entails contacting the local council, then obtaining, completing, and turning in the "Adult Application." The council will then process the application. (Every applicant is screened.)

Upon approval to serve as a volunteer, individuals are expected to complete BSA Youth Protection training within 90 days of assuming a leadership position. This training can be done through the BSA's Online Learning Center. The Boy Scouts of America seeks to create a safe environment for young people and adult leaders to enjoy the program and related activities. BSA Youth Protection training helps preserve that environment."

All it take is one wacko to inflict serious harm to a scout and I hope you are not the one who has to stand in front of the parents and explain why Mr or Mrs X was allowed to get near their son because you didn't press them to get the paperwork done. BSA is just moving the 90 days to before the applicaiton is submitted.

[Cowboy]

Almost every BSA Leader is a volunteer. There are very few professional Scouters. I am okay with everyone needing at minimum YPT, and a background check. It is unfortunate that we actually have to do this, but that is our current society. One of the things that we are trying to do is bring these boys to a higher level of expectations. We can do that best by setting the example and showing that we are taking safety and morality seriously.

[FrankJ]

I do not know. Timeless values and all that. Hillcourt's Scout Master manual (60s vintage) is a way better manual than the current one. So maybe scout master training from 48 years ago is not a bad thing. But yes I agree that you need to keep current & scouting has changed in the last 48 years. Requiring people to keep re-taking a basic course is the way to do it though.

Rather than say we will just throw the ones out that do want to take YPT. I am going to work on a way to get them trained in my little corner of scouting. Because the reality is that registered is going to = YPT. I wonder if that is going to apply to BSA employees as well?

Does any one know if the venturing leaders are going to have to take both sets of training (there is one that is specific to venturing.)

[smtroop168]

I wonder if that is going to apply to BSA employees as well?

Does any one know if the venturing leaders are going to have to take both sets of training (there is one that is specific to venturing.)

I'll ask my Daughter!

What are Venturing Leaders required to take now? Both?

[kwildman]

This is a good thing.

And if we lose people because they don't want to be trained then we are probably better off.

+1

the biggest problem that I see is that I have heard that SM training (except for OLS) will also be available online. I think that all though these will make training more accessible it will also dumb down the learning and really hurt some of the training programs already in place.

[alex gregory]

I may be wrong, but I think the girl scouts have been requiring training of all new leaders for quite awhile.

You are not wrong, and the girl scouts also were background checking long before boy scouts.

[alex gregory]

I foresee yet *another* drop in the number of MBCs. When they started requiring SSNs, we lost a substantial number of them. Experts such as police officers, artists, engineers, and other professionals that were only doing merit badge counseling. It was another hoop, and many weren't willing to jump through it. Coming soon to a Scout Council near you -- merit badge counselor lists that are made up entirely of Scouts' parents.

Why would YPT training of adult leaders have any effect of MBCs?

[evmori]

Anyone who wants to become a member of an organizations should be willing to abide by its rules and regs. If you want to be a BSA adult leader, your SSN is required. So is a background check. So is some training. Ya don't want to give us your SSN? Why? Oh yeah. Identity fraud. Excuse not a reason. You don't want to be submitted to a background check? Hiding something? You don't want to take the required training? Because you don't have the time? Then how are you going to have the time necessary to even be a leader.

[Billiken]

You don't want to take the required training?
Because you don't have the time?
Then how are you going to have the time necessary to even be a leader.

Winner of the most profound statement of the month prize!

[smtroop168]

You don't want to take the required training?
Because you don't have the time?
Then how are you going to have the time necessary to even be a leader.

Winner of the most profound statement of the month prize!

I was told I would only have to devote an hour a week to scouts and if I take this training it'll be more than that.

[ThunderingWind]

Why would YPT training of adult leaders have any effect of MBCs?

Because all counselors will be required to take the YPT course.

[ThunderingWind]

new train of thought on this.................

National BSA should take the premptive step of using all the free media they have available and put out a PSA and full
page print ads telling everyone on the US that the National BSA is taking even more pro-active steps to protect the youth
of America by requiring all adults even if they have not direct contact with Youth to have take Youth Protection Training.

[cballman]

I will open my mouth on this topic now. If I have to take a few hours of training to do something that I enjoy doing like teaching children and camping I will do it. I want to be able to make a difference by being involved in Scouting. Now I would like the parents out there to know and understand that I will accept the facts that I have done the training and hopefully understand what we are teaching their children. Another poster commented if they cant spare a few hours for training then how can they spare time for the children? Awesome question. If we cant spare a few hours to help ourselves understand Scouting then maybe Scouting cant spare the time to waste on you. Now lets look at this another way. Its summer time and we are going to the pool. Wait a minute there are Lifegaurds that have spent time training just so that you can enjoy yourselves while they are working. Wow even though they get paid they still have to do training just so that you and your family can be safe. Now yes the Lifegaurds get paid but what about us BSA Lifegaurds that dont and still take the training and still work with your kids while you are out slaveing away. Now one last thought "Every SCOUT deserves a Trained LEADER" . So lets work together to make the BSA a safer and more fun place to be.

[smtroop168]

http://www.scouting.org/Training/YouthProtection.aspx

Here is the official link to scouting .org. It's interesting that Youth Protection is one of the selctions at the top of the home page on the web site now. (maybe it been there awhile and I didn't notice)

[AquilaNegra2]

Anyone who wants to become a member of an organizations should be willing to abide by its rules and regs. If you want to be a BSA adult leader, your SSN is required. So is a background check. So is some training. Ya don't want to give us your SSN? Why? Oh yeah. Identity fraud. Excuse not a reason. You don't want to be submitted to a background check? Hiding something? You don't want to take the required training? Because you don't have the time? Then how are you going to have the time necessary to even be a leader.

Are you serious, Ed? What do you mean, I can't come in and search your house? Are you hiding something? Why can't I ask your 12-year old personal questions about what goes on in your family? Are you hiding something? That's a ridiculous statement akin to "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

The best defense against the wackos is no one-on-one contact. YPT is for the lawyers. While I certainly understand its need for those of us who have regular contact with the boys, requiring another hoop for a MBC only hurts us. Our district (not troop, but district) has 10% of merit badges without a current counselor (not even including the 2010 badges). I'm glad that you have enough volunteers in your area that you can afford to lose some without batting an eye. We don't. The more hoops we add, the smaller the pool, the less the quality for the boys.

YPT, background checks, etc are NOT going to keep your sons safe from a pedophile who targets him. That's an illusion, and a defense in court. There are ways around things. Teaching your child never to be alone with an adult outside their immediate family is a much better tactic.

[evmori]

Anyone who wants to become a member of an organizations should be willing to abide by its rules and regs. If you want to be a BSA adult leader, your SSN is required. So is a background check. So is some training. Ya don't want to give us your SSN? Why? Oh yeah. Identity fraud. Excuse not a reason. You don't want to be submitted to a background check? Hiding something? You don't want to take the required training? Because you don't have the time? Then how are you going to have the time necessary to even be a leader.

Are you serious, Ed? What do you mean, I can't come in and search your house? Are you hiding something? Why can't I ask your 12-year old personal questions about what goes on in your family? Are you hiding something? That's a ridiculous statement akin to "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

The best defense against the wackos is no one-on-one contact. YPT is for the lawyers. While I certainly understand its need for those of us who have regular contact with the boys, requiring another hoop for a MBC only hurts us. Our district (not troop, but district) has 10% of merit badges without a current counselor (not even including the 2010 badges). I'm glad that you have enough volunteers in your area that you can afford to lose some without batting an eye. We don't. The more hoops we add, the smaller the pool, the less the quality for the boys.

YPT, background checks, etc are NOT going to keep your sons safe from a pedophile who targets him. That's an illusion, and a defense in court. There are ways around things. Teaching your child never to be alone with an adult outside their immediate family is a much better tactic.

I'm not sure I understand you problem with my post???? Are you advocating that YPT is useless?

[wagionvigil]

I am quite certain this is an outcome form the lawsuit we just lost out west somewhere. In PA if a parent wants to help at their kids school in any way IE: classroom help,party help, Santas helper etc. they must have a Child Abuse Background check made through the State police. cost is 10.00
Field Trip Chaperones also must have them