Young SPLs

[EagleBoy62204]

In our troop, we have alot of both older and younger kids. For as long as i have known, my troop has not had a young SPL. Our SPLs have always beeen 16 - 17years and 11months old. This causing the "brother rivalry" arguements betwen scouts and the SPL. it was real hard to set meetings up when the older spl, almost in a dictating fashion lead the group with skills.
Taking everything with concideration, we have decided to change things a bit, and give one of the younger scouts who is 14 a try at SPL, he is also one of two little brothers that are in the troop. The only problem now, is he is having a hard time controlling and getting the attention of the group expecially trying to do skills. The younger kids get distracted and the older aged kids dont like that they are taking directions from someone 2 - 3 years younger than they are, or they get bored easily since they have either taught this certain skill or have done it several times that they know it in their sleep. I sit in with the group for motivational support and take notes on several things about what the group is doing and how he handles it, and i pull him aside after the meeting or when we are at home and discuss it. Never telling him what to do, but give him ideas on how to fix it. Each week it seems to be a different person doing something different. Its hard for him to
I am trying not to give him ideas or get involved in the interaction too much, because since i am 19, i am no longer concidered a "scout". However, since I am the only active older scout, I am looked upon to help the kids along. I'll throw my two cents in when it is needed, or when he is having a hard time controlling the group ill take action but beyond that i try not to get involved. But i want him to find his own teaching and leadership ways expecially seeing how hes a young spl. I was SPL for 3 almost 4 years before i turned 18 and alot of the leaders know my kind of style of ideas. I do alot of things hands on, instead of lecturing.
I want him to figure out his own style of leading but to the point where it is good enough to pass down to generation to generation where eventually my youngest brother who entered the troop thsi year can use the same approach when hes SPL and it will still work.
Any suggestions on how to do this? Also, if you have any skills that would help this situation out would dearly help.

[ASM-142]

In our troop, we have alot of both older and younger kids. For as long as i have known, my troop has not had a young SPL. Our SPLs have always beeen 16 - 17years and 11months old. This causing the "brother rivalry" arguements betwen scouts and the SPL. it was real hard to set meetings up when the older spl, almost in a dictating fashion lead the group with skills.
Taking everything with concideration, we have decided to change things a bit, and give one of the younger scouts who is 14 a try at SPL, he is also one of two little brothers that are in the troop. The only problem now, is he is having a hard time controlling and getting the attention of the group expecially trying to do skills. The younger kids get distracted and the older aged kids dont like that they are taking directions from someone 2 - 3 years younger than they are, or they get bored easily since they have either taught this certain skill or have done it several times that they know it in their sleep. I sit in with the group for motivational support and take notes on several things about what the group is doing and how he handles it, and i pull him aside after the meeting or when we are at home and discuss it. Never telling him what to do, but give him ideas on how to fix it. Each week it seems to be a different person doing something different. Its hard for him to
I am trying not to give him ideas or get involved in the interaction too much, because since i am 19, i am no longer concidered a "scout". However, since I am the only active older scout, I am looked upon to help the kids along. I'll throw my two cents in when it is needed, or when he is having a hard time controlling the group ill take action but beyond that i try not to get involved. But i want him to find his own teaching and leadership ways expecially seeing how hes a young spl. I was SPL for 3 almost 4 years before i turned 18 and alot of the leaders know my kind of style of ideas. I do alot of things hands on, instead of lecturing.
I want him to figure out his own style of leading but to the point where it is good enough to pass down to generation to generation where eventually my youngest brother who entered the troop thsi year can use the same approach when hes SPL and it will still work.
Any suggestions on how to do this? Also, if you have any skills that would help this situation out would dearly help.

How is the SPL in your troop decided? It should be by election of the scouts. If the troop elects a scout that is 17 so be it. The same if they elect a scout that is 13.

[JazerNorth]

Taking everything with concideration, we have decided to change things a bit, and give one of the younger scouts who is 14 a try at SPL, he is also one of two little brothers that are in the troop. The only problem now, is he is having a hard time controlling and getting the attention of the group expecially trying to do skills. The younger kids get distracted and the older aged kids dont like that they are taking directions from someone 2 - 3 years younger than they are, or they get bored easily since they have either taught this certain skill or have done it several times that they know it in their sleep.

First and very important question. Did he get elected by the Scouts in the Troop? If so, then they should follow. If you or someone appointed him, it is going to be extremely hard to get the boys to follow, as they did not make the choice on who is their leader.

JazerNorth

[Mrw]

The SPL should not be the one doing all the teaching, he should be delegating some of that. The older boys should not be having to sit and listen to a scout skills lesson on things they already know. They should either be helping teach or have something else to work on. Possibly try to get the older boys to spend part of each meeting working on a merit badge or planning an outing that requires some of their skills and that is more "high adventure" than might be appropriate for the younger kids.

Our older boys go camping or canoeing or such once or twice a year without the younger ones. They need to be 1st Class or above for these outings and it gives them a reward for sticking around. It also gives the other boys something to work towards.

[EagleBoy62204]

How is the SPL in your troop decided? It should be by election of the scouts. If the troop elects a scout that is 17 so be it. The same if they elect a scout that is 13.

He was appointed by our scoutmaster. He felt he was the only one that was capable of doing the job. We have had votes in the past, but the spl usually either turned 18, or it was a hands down decision to reinstate me.

@ Mrw: Our older scout participation is so sparce, that you cant rely on them to help teach the next week, because they decide that they dont want to come or have homework or what not. Even though they have a responsibility given to them they dont show up. Its irratating. He's tried to go to his aspls, which he has four of them because of reasons of the older boys stated above. one really helps him out, with everything but its still not enough.

[ASM-142]

It sounds like these older scouts show no sign of Scout Spirit. The SM should let them know that he will not sign off on this requirment for them.

[Mrw]

You said you had a problem with the SPL who was elected aging out before his term was up. These boys should not be eligible to run for SPL if they cannot finish the term.

In addition, if you emphasize with the younger boys before the election that they should vote for someone who will be there to do their job on a regular basis and that good attendance is a must, they will be much less likely to vote for an older kid with a poor attitude and spotty attendance.

[EagleBoy62204]

You said you had a problem with the SPL who was elected aging out before his term was up. These boys should not be eligible to run for SPL if they cannot finish the term.

In addition, if you emphasize with the younger boys before the election that they should vote for someone who will be there to do their job on a regular basis and that good attendance is a must, they will be much less likely to vote for an older kid with a poor attitude and spotty attendance.

Well what happened back then was, my spl who was before me, had 7 months before he turned 18, we put him as SPL with two good young ASPLs. One whom was myself, and the other was another potential for good leadership. This was because the adults wanted the older spl to basically train us into what it takes. He had the title of SPL but really put the weight on our shoulders. The troop was leaning on the other kid to take over the reigns after the 7 months, however as time went on the other kid eventually droped out because of sports, which left me to take over as SPL.

Regardless what we say, its a popularity contest. Early on in our troop history (our troop left from another troop because of reasons...long story), my scoutmaster caught on to what was happening and soley made it his decision based on how he handles himself in the meetings and campouts, and weither he handles the JLT training well enough. Most of the boys dont have a problem with it. If there is two runners for SPL which on occurance rarely happens. Then we hold elections.

[Mrw]

We have found that emphasizing the attendance and responsibility aspects immediately before they hold elections is pretty effective.

We went through a period where we also found a need to appoint, rather than elect, the top troop leadership. As the troop has grown the last couple years and some of the boys have gotten older, they have stepped up and insisted they be allowed to run things.

Right now, we have 36 boys on the roster, and at least 30 are reasonably active. Four either re-chartered and never came back or crossed over and came once and quit. We have one high school senior and two junior (both Eagle). These three were recently appointed as JASM's. The next group are high school freshmen and they are suddenly acting like leaders instead of little kids.

I wish you the same growth in maturity in your troop.

[Scouting179]

Older Scouts and younger Scouts have different interests. Try having two or more activities going (one for each age group) on or otherwise involve the older boys.

[ASM-142]

Prior to elections for SPL we have the candidates present campaign speaches. At the conclusion of the speach, questions are raised first by the scouts and then by the scouters present to each of the candidate.

Questions in the past have included what their involvement will be, activities for younger scouts versus older scouts etc

[hacimsaalk]

well, first of all if the SPL is troop elected, then it shouldnt matter if the boy is 17 or 13, the troop decides, and lives w/their decision. as far as teaching skills goes, the spl should delegate some if not most of this to others within the troop. there is a lot that will be retaught, and retaught again, thers nothing you can really do about it. btw- do you follow the recommended ideas for each month, or do you make up your own?

in our troop, we make up our own. it seems to work better that way. usually one person will teach a skill, and if the older scouts need to discuss something, they will break awway and do it. if someone needs reqs. signed off, they go off and do it.

i think that if theres problems w/siblings, a little peer pressure should work. i know when i began ASPL, my brother didnt want to listen to me, or even take ideas, reccomendations, ect. from me. after a little pressure and pursuasion from friends, he finally started to come around.

just a little bit of advice. ( i know this post is a little old, so sorry)

[Mrw]

When my young er son did not want to respect his brother as SPL, I explained to him that they weren't to act like brothers at scouts, they were to act like younger scout and SPL.

They needed to keep the roles separate.

[commish3]

my parents took a different approach with my older brother and me when we were in scouts together. Rather than see it as two different worlds they saw it as one. It wasn't that were wern't brothers at scout activities it was that we were brothers and brother scouts ALL the time.

We were expected to treat each other in a friendly courteous and kind manner whether we were in uniform or out at a campout out or at home and we were expected to treat others the same way.

Being a scout to them was something you were... not something you did at scout events.

Just a different approach to consider.

[Mrw]

I always expected them to respect each other at home too. And they usually got along fairly well together.

The troop leadership role brought out a jealousy that we didn't have to deal with before as they have different leadership styles and each thought they would do a better job because of it. Separating the roles of brothers from the roles of scouts diffused this issue.

[214TrailRider]

The root of the problem is having an "appointed" SPL; the Scout positions of SPL, ASPL, and Patrol Leader should always be elected. Other positions(Quartermaster, Scribe, Librarian, etc.) should be appointed by the SPL and his ASPL's.
Our Troop elects a new ASPL every 6 months, the Scout that was ASPL moves to SPL, that way the ASPL is "in training" with the SPL, SM and ASM's for that period when we have BrownSea and Junior Leadership Training.
Our Troop had a similar problem many years ago with older Scouts being disrespectful to the "younger" SPL on a campout.
I just so happen to be the camp Scoutmaster on this campout. I called the Scouts in question aside, asked them how many had been SPL or wanted to be at some point; every hand was raised, I then asked how many thought the position of SPL demanded respect, no matter who held the position, again all hands where raised.
I then asked those that had not yet been SPL if they would like it if they were disrespected as our current SPL had been. They all said no.
Those that had been SPL, I asked them how they would have felt if some of the older Scouts had acted in this manner when they were SPL, needless to say, they would not have put up with this.
I believe if we teach honor and respect to the Scouts starting at the Cub level, show them that respect, they will show it to each other also.