Mandatory Training

[wagionvigil]

In the position I am in I see many leaders that are untrained or feel justified to act that way. I truly believe BSA needs to start making training Mandatory with a Firm Cutoff date say 6 months from the day you register with a troop.
Here is my list for anyone that will be going anywhere with the troop for any activity

Scoutmasters Fundamentals and Outdoor Weekend
Climb On Safely Usually Offered at Roun dTable in the Winter and is offered at Summer Camp
Safe Swim and Safety Afloat Both Online
Youth Protection Online
CPR and First Aid

Some Councils require a Risk Management Course

Anyone that fails to finish these in the prescribed time will not be allowed to attend any activity (Including Meetings and serving as a driver) and then will be dropped from the Charter upon Renewal. The only excuse is that one of the courses is not offered within that time frame. Then the First Time it is offered after the 6 months is mandatory.

Anyone in a leadership position after two years would have to take Wood Badge.

Anyone serving on BOR etc must take YPT and Leader Basic plus BOR Training.

[Mrw]

So you are wanting to require the Outdoor weekend and woodbadge even for us lowly committee members?

I can understand requiring all the new leader essentials, YPT and any of the other available on-line course so people truly know the basics of the program, but to send all adult volunteers through all the training would really stress the number of training staff.

I can even see requiring annual incremental training for all leaders. The weekend away trainings though, would not even be an option for all of our adults due to work and family considerations.

[wagionvigil]

If you are camping with the Troop Yep!

[pipestone1991]

Woodbadge is too hard. It takes alot of time. YP is required at many events as it is. Requiring ALL of this will destroy the BSA. Now, requiring some training such as YP wouldn't be a bad idea.

[wagionvigil]

If you wish to be in the Program why should training not be mandatory? ALso wood Badge is not hard it is alot of Fun. If you are going to go out with the troop as an adult you should either have training or else not be in the program. You notice I said after two year for wood badge. SCout Basic and outdoor are a must for anyone going out with the troop. Yes even us Eagle scouts. SSD and Safety Afloat as well as YPT can be done on line. COS must be done by a climbing Instructor or director

[FrankJ]

I think Woodbadge should be optional. It is probably the best $185 I ever spent. One thing that sets it above similar corporate courses like it that I have taken is everybody wants to be there. Requiring people who do not want to be there to take it would ruin it.

[wagionvigil]

Jamboree requires Troop leadership to have WB

[WVBeaver05]

I'm with you on most of this wagionvigil.

Not sure I would require COS. But I would Safe Swim and Safety Afloat. (I'm going to have to think this over. I'm not sure I am comfortable with my position on this one. Initially, I reasoned that many more units would be involved in water activities than climbing, but I don't know if that makes sense. Let's mark this one pending.

I would not require Wood Badge. I would like to only use trainers that have had it and perhaps restrict other activities, but I still wouldn't require it.

Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills.... again, I wouldn't require it for everyone. But, I don't allow adults who haven't had it to sign off requirements. I would not allow an outdoor activity without two deep leadership who both had the training.

So where do we differ? I see my view as requiring the basic training for each position, but withholding some things for those that don't have the appropriate training. We both believe that training should be required. I think we are going for the same things with minor differences in the details.

What about periodic retraining?

YiS

[wagionvigil]

We are close. COS is so easy to sit through and that way everyone has it.
There are some things upcoming that may help a bit with all this. We just need to wait and see. I know GPC requires most of what I said or they will not give you a TP. Other councils are starting to follow suit.

[WVBeaver05]

Our Council requires the unit leader to be fully trained to recharter. Starting with this year, they said they would require the CC to be fully trained as well. Not sure if they followed through with that one. There was discussion of continuing to progress through other leaders with requirements increasing on an annual basis.

Not sure if this will continue (brand new SE just started).

But, I support it fully.

YiS

[AquilaNegra2]

You can't treat volunteers like paid employees...

[evmori]

I with ya on this wagon! You sign up, pay your non-refundable fee & get a training schedule. You have until the next time your unit charters to attend the required training or you will not be rechartered.

[wagionvigil]

You can't treat volunteers like paid employees...

Yes you can. AS long as The CO,Council and National are liable for leaders that screw up.

[mt_goodrich]

I'm pretty much with you wagion....but requiring Wood Badge might be difficult to push.

Wood Badge was probably the best experience in my Scouting life, and certainly a top ten in my personal life. Not only did I learn things that I am now applying to Scouting, I am also applying it to my personal and business life.

If I can just get my folks trained for their positions, I would really be ahead of the game. They would better understand where they fit in with the program and what is required of them.

[mt_goodrich]

Woodbadge is too hard. It takes alot of time. ........

Wood Badge is not hard....it just requires commitment on the part of the participant. Also, it really doesn't take too much more time if done right.

Part of working the ticket is to do things you already should be doing as part of your position in Scouting (SM, ASM, Troop Committee, CM, DL, etc.), but applying what you have learned and doing it better.

[DadScout]

Wagion, I agree partially but not all the way.

You should be trained for the position you have. If you're on the Committee then the Troop Committee Challenge (what our council calls it). If you're a SM/ASM then SM fundamentals. Naturally Youth Protection too.

Then Outdoor Leader Skills and First Aid/CPR.

In the case of Climb on, Swim safely, & safety Afloat I can only agree with the Aquatics side. In the case of our troop we only do Climbing at Summer Camp and there's trained staff for that. If our troop wanted climbing outside of summer camp, then it's a different story. Keep in mind I and many of the leaders in my Troop took all the above training anyway.

As far as WB goes, while I found it a valuable course I can't justify requiring it for all.

The one addition would be that you do your fundamentals again, maybe every 5 years or so. An alternative would be to staff it every few years.
This way you keep from getting into those ruts of thinking you're doing it right when you're not. Youth Protection, at least in our Council, needs to be redone every 2 years.

[scrufmonst]

Being a CS Training Chair within my District, I am kind of biased..... but if I were "the Great Holy One for a Day" I would require within 2 or 3 months of joining that all Leaders be "Fully Trained", now that is all of the four required courses, YPT, Fast Start, NLE, And CSLST. Your Trainers need to be available for this as a moments notice, thats what they get paid the big bucks for. After this, you as a Leader should feel obligated to take and receive any amount of training that you feel is essential to do your job correctly and to stay current with the happenings of BSA.

As for WB, me personally I have taken the course within my first year of returning to scouting, If you dont take this within your first couple of years than you are missing out on an exceptional toolset that can be utilized in both Scouting as well as in your professional career.

Supplemental courses need to be taken as they only enhance your confidence and ability to help the Scouting program provide the utmost for the boys involved. When they should be taken is up to the individual, that is to say if you know that you are going to actively participate in the Family Pack Campout than yes, as soon as you can become Baloo trained you better do it!!! If all the Leaders are trained the chance is less likely of you all forgetting how to start a fire and we all can backfill each other.....

The other positive for all Leaders being trained is that it becomes less hard to find the follow on Leader for next year.

Just my 2 sheckles.

YiS YiWB,

Scott

[OldGreyBear]

Coming from a Council that has a manditory training requirement, I need to add before anybody tries to mandate Training, look at your Disitrct training staff and be sure they train to the syllabus and are available and dont add in their own spin (uniform and insurance, no fixed knives in scouting, etc)

The Disitrct training staffs were well stocked and trained themselves before the requirement was in place and every scouter who agreed with the requiremesnts were asked to staff a training session, sort of a put up or shut up move. The Disitrct offer the courses on a staggered schedule so there is never more than 3 months between courses. it can be done, but a significant amount of pre-work is required

[Nuts4Scouts]

I can go along with mandatory basic training. The current adult application states that volunteers are "expected" to complete Youth Protection Training within 90 days of registration. Of course, there is no follow thru on this expectation.

I adamantly do NOT agree with requiring Woodbadge of every registered volunteer.

At an average of $200 for the course, this would seriously reduce your volunteer pool. If you thought the old Woodbadge was elitist, your new, required, version would be many, many times worse. You would end up with an elite group of upper middle class as the the only ones who could AFFORD to be a trained BSA leader. And don't reply with there being "scholarships" for Woodbadge. With Woodbadge a required course for every volunteer there would be no way a council could afford to cover registration costs for the increased numbers.

There are a lot of great leaders out there who are in the low income brackets. BSA would loose them. Forget about getting inner city parents to register and work with their sons in Scouts. That $200 is food for a month for their family.

The ONLY way mandatory Woodbadge would work is if National either reduced the cost down to what the rest of basic training costs - or make it no charge.

[pipestone1991]

You can't treat volunteers like paid employees...

Yes you can. AS long as The CO,Council and National are liable for leaders that screw up.

Then volunteers have every right to quit. I wouldn't blame them at all.