Required Training is Coming

[evmori]

Unfortunately now that a new adult voulnteer must complete YPT prior to the application is processed, trying to get them to a sit down course is a problem.

There is an on-line course available.

[wagionvigil]

I am thinking that most training is going to be online. The exceptions would be anything requiring outdoor training.I know of at least one council that requires training now including one course that is strictly their own, a risk management course.
Helped with a Venturing Leaders specific course this past weekend. There was nothing presented in that course that could not be done on line except for asking questions and having experienced in put from the trainers.

[RWSmith]

Latest update - just advised that National will delay required training. Following up to get more details but looks like at least a year. Doesn't mean that Councils can't require it earlier.

Some people seem to think that the delay is because of problems implementing in some of the pilot Councils.

Let you know more when I find out.

Here's the official statement (which, as always, offers no reason for the delay)...

REQUIRED TRAINING UPDATE
"Please help spread the word that the required training pilot period has changed. Originally intended to end December 31, 2010 has now been extended through 2011. The 20 pilot councils will continue their hard work in defining the future of required top leader training in 2011 to ensure a smooth rollout to all of our councils in the future. However, local councils should consider this to be a part of their program goals for 2011, as it has already been successful in many councils across the country that has increased their training percentages. If you have further questions concerning this initiative, please do not hesitate to contact...." (See: http://scouting.org/Training/TrainingUpdates.aspx)

<snark=on> I must admit, I've become quite jaded about ANY delays coming out of National... ANY.

No matter what it is, it seems (to me) to boil down to "I.T." problems. <snark=off>

[FrankJ]

Or maybe it is the realization that a 100% trained is a nice goal, but not an realistic expectation.

[WVBeaver05]

One of the things that I keep hearing mentioned is - will BSA really drop/not recharter units because of training issues?

They drop volunteers a couple years ago over the background checks.

Guess we will have to wait and see.

YiS

[wagionvigil]

Or maybe it is the realization that a 100% trained is a nice goal, but not an realistic expectation.

It is going to happen. If you are not trained you will not be involved in the program.

[wagionvigil]

One of the things that I keep hearing mentioned is - will BSA really drop/not recharter units because of training issues?

They drop volunteers a couple years ago over the background checks.

Guess we will have to wait and see.

YiS

QUick answer, yes that will happen. Long answer they are going to be warned first tio correct the problems.BSA cannot afford more lawsuits because of non trained unit leadership.

[WVBeaver05]

...There was nothing presented in that course that could not be done on line except for asking questions and having experienced in put from the trainers.

Yes, but how much are we losing by not having the questions and input? The same question that comes up about most non-instructor lead training everywhere. Not sure that I know what the "right" answer is, but I do know that the interaction is a valuable part of learning.

YiS

[wagionvigil]

...There was nothing presented in that course that could not be done on line except for asking questions and having experienced in put from the trainers.

Yes, but how much are we losing by not having the questions and input? The same question that comes up about most non-instructor lead training everywhere. Not sure that I know what the "right" answer is, but I do know that the interaction is a valuable part of learning.

YiS

That is where roundtables should come in. I remember when I went from youth to adult and to get my SM training I had to attend X # of ROundtables during a two year period. Maybe that is the answer. Take the course online but then you MUST attend X# of roundtables to finish the course.
THoughts??

[WVBeaver05]

...There was nothing presented in that course that could not be done on line except for asking questions and having experienced in put from the trainers.

Yes, but how much are we losing by not having the questions and input? The same question that comes up about most non-instructor lead training everywhere. Not sure that I know what the "right" answer is, but I do know that the interaction is a valuable part of learning.

YiS

That is where roundtables should come in. I remember when I went from youth to adult and to get my SM training I had to attend X # of ROundtables during a two year period. Maybe that is the answer. Take the course online but then you MUST attend X# of roundtables to finish the course.
THoughts??

If that isn't an opening for a Boy Scout Round Table Commissioner

Training recognitions still require Round Table attendence. I believe that every unit should have a representative at the Round Table -- but that isn't what happens in our District. We seem to have a harder time getting people out for Round Tables than for training. For those that don't know, Round Tables are considered "continuing training" and interaction (i.e. Round Table discussions) between leaders are one of the major components.

So, yes I agree they are important, the can and should complement the training (either instructor lead or on-line). Not sure that they can take the place of an instructor in some courses. But, there still remains an issue of getting leaders to them.

YiS

[FrankJ]

I can see dropping people because they do not have YPT. It is going to be like the SSN thing a few years ago. And a number of those leaders just became parent volunteers.

National seems to be rethinking their position on the rest of it. Even what makes a "trained" leader is a moving target. Once again if it a hard & fast rule, you are going to see a lot of parent volunteers & CMs doing the ASM role.

[wagionvigil]

It may get to the position that anyone on a Boy Scout outing will have to be registered unless the outing is speciificly stated as a Parent and Scout outing. Cub Scouting would be different.

[cballman]

I understand the feeling that everyone is having BUT. Having been involved with scouting for a couple of years now the changes that I have seen have been remarkable. I dont really care for the online training BUT. It is a way o letting people know what needs to happen. I enjoy scouting and and now that my son and daughter are now registared leaders, they need to be trained even though my son is an Eagle scout. Just because we went through the program when we were kids dont mean we know diddly. I didnt Going through the training has help me become a better leader, a better person and more understanding as to what has to happen to run a quality program. I think the face to face training is more fun because when I teach something we have question and answer sessions. Online no questions. In example since I was crazy enough to be certified as a BSA Lifeguard I teach the Safe Swim defense and Safety Afloat. Yes they changed the programs a little bit but I will use the old ones for a little bit longer until I can get hard copies of the new program. I grew up around a river. I have seen and helped pull TWO bodies from the water before I was 15 years old. I do not want to pull one of my kids bodies and have to make that call to anyone. That is why you will follow the rules on the water or you dont swim or boat. Just my 2 cents worth. Yes we need to have mandatory training because I have seen leaders who have not been trained do things very wrong.

[WVBeaver05]

...I enjoy scouting and and now that my son and daughter are now registared leaders, they need to be trained even though my son is an Eagle scout. Just because we went through the program when we were kids dont mean we know diddly...

When I returned to Scouting after hmmm, several years away I admit that I questioned needing to take Introduction Oudoor Leader Skills since I am an Eagle Scout.

I found within a few hours of starting it that the Tenderfoot to First Class skills were a minor part of what the training was providing. I was impressed with the class and continued on to become one of the District trainers (IOLS this coming weekend!! and WB CD next May!!!). So, yes, even Eagle Scouts need the training. Especially about how to deliver the program.

What frustrates me the most is Trained Leaders who still don't follow the program -- and sometimes, don't follow it in a big way.

YiS

[wagionvigil]

Example: ALl scouts and SCouts MUST wear an approved bike helmet when Biking. I was riding last Sunday on the Yough River Trail between Ohiopyle and Confluence. Started seeing boys on bikes starting to come to me then some more and a lot more Said you guys scouts? answer Yes Well where are your helmets? Leader said since everyine did not have one that it was Ok. Moved on up the trail here comes the leader Told him who I was and why are there no helmets? He laughed and said nothing will happen and everyone did no6t have helmets Told him he was wrong and moved on. I notified our ASST SE and what troop Yes from my council. THE ASE is on Vacation and will get the email when he gets in the office tomorrow. I will follow up later this week but I suggested that he contact them and tell them about it and that we start putting G2SS information in our council newsletter. This was a trained leader that decided he did not have to follow the rules. I truly think that if you are a leader trained or untrained that decides to go against BSA policy and something happens it is all on you BSA will assume zero liability. But if you are a trained leader and folowing all the rules and something goes south BSA will back you all the way and assume all liability.

[FrankJ]

Training will not fix stupid. Leader did not view wearing bike helmet as important. Knowing that it was a rule really did not change that.

I do not know what the law is in other states, but in Georgia, under 16s are required by law to wear helmets. I still see youth on bicycles, with their parents, the youth not wearing helmets.

I am in no way arguing against training. Training will fix ignorant.

My soon to be 18 year son is taking Scout master Fundamentals & Itols. Even though he can & has been an instructor for much of the material that is being covered. Why? Because the expectation in our unit is that leaders need to be trained.

[WVBeaver05]

Same here. My soon to be 18 (sooner to be Eagle, I hope) son would be taking IOLS next weekend except for the ACT. We expect our leaders to be trained as well and our Council plans to institute mandatory training next year. But, mostly, because there is more to those courses than just the scouting skills.

YiS

[Fred Johnson]

I don't want to be the lone wolf, but I love the BSA online training. It's a smooth and flexible way to get a consistent and accurate presentation of BSA topics, policies and procedures. And, it's almost always available (except for BSA IT problems.) Also, the new ability to query the BSA training records is invaluable.

Over the years, I've been to just too many bad training sessions. I walk out frustrated that I just wasted an hour or two or four. Some classes like Wood Badge and OLS have been great, others like den leader specific training, New Leader Essentials and youth protection are inconsistently presented and sometimes just painful; or, ineffective; or, has bad information. With all due respect to the many many great trainers out there, I've had just a few too many ineffective trainers. I'll take the on-line training anytime!

For Q&A, discussion or such, I do go to round table. I've been attending at least 8 of the 10 annual round tables since 2003. They are invaluable.

As a bad example of training, take the last round table break out session. Topic was boy scout advancement. The room was packed. The leaders of one troop who each had 10+ knots on their uniforms were telling us that their troop requires 50% attendance to advance. I asked if they meant for the youth to keep the P.O.R.? No, any scout to advance must be at 50% of the meetings, camp outs and activities. I politely disagreed and the trainers defended them that they could do that. I pointed out the BSA definition of active and referred to the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures. They indicated their troop had the right to define attendance requirements. I had to hold my tongue.

I wish BSA had an online training course for boy scout advancement and another for cub scout advancement. It would be great to have a consistent BSA presentation on the topic.

[wagionvigil]

They do not have that right to require 50%. They are wrong and of course your council will never do anything about it until a parent calls and rants.

[ThunderingWind]

Example: ALL scouts and Scouters MUST wear an approved bike helmet when Biking. ...snipped...He laughed and said nothing will happen and everyone did not have helmets. Told him he was wrong and moved on. I notified our ASST SE and what troop Yes from my council. THE ASE is on Vacation and will get the email when he gets in the office tomorrow. I will follow up later this week but I suggested that he contact them and tell them about it and that we start putting G2SS information in our council newsletter. This was a trained leader that decided he did not have to follow the rules. .....snipped....

If this leader is not kicked out, then we have a problem. His choice of not following the BSA G2SS is considered reckless endangerment and gross negligence in many States and Commonwealths when opting to ignore safety equipement as simple as a helmut.

This flagrant disregard for the rules cannot and must not be tolerated.

I do not like to wear a helmut when I bike either, but the BSA says I have too and it is the law (big dollar fine) here in Virginia. So i do.

In the Commonwelath of PA, it is required BY LAW for all youth under 12 to wear it or face a $25 dollar fine. So, all boys on the trip that just crossed over had to have them by law and G2SS. This leader must be shown the door.