Troop guides as "acting" new scout patrol leader

[philpisch]

Is the following wrong? If so, how significant is it? It's not a due or die situation. I am curious on whether this should change and, if so, how important it is to change.

My scouting experience and my reading of BSA scouting materials says that a troop guide coaches the new scouts and specifically supports and coaches the new scout patrol leader.

My second son joined a troop where the new scouts don't receive a patrol leader until four months later. The election occurs during the week long summer camp. The new patrol is lead initially by the troop guide.

I can see good and bad.

• Good in that this keeps the troop guide involved with the new scouts. Otherwise, the guide might disengage earlier if the new patrol leader is capable.
• Good in that it "might" show examples of good leadership.
• Bad in that slows down the on-the-job learning of the scouts. Scouts learn by doing and that includes leadership.
• Bad in that the troop guide is still a member of his own patrol. So the troop guide regularily disappears during camp outs and events to be with his own friends and patrol leaving the new scouts leaderless.

What do others think?

[smtroop168]

I think the Troop Guide is not doing his job completely. Just because they elect a PL, doesn't alleviate the Troop Guide's POR tasks.

TROOP GUIDE
Position description: The troop guide an older scout usually at least a First Class and is both a leader and a mentor to the members of the new-Scout patrol. He helps them feel comfortable and assists them in earning their First Class rank in their first year. He helps the patrol leader of the new-Scout patrol in much the same way that a Scoutmaster works with a senior patrol leader to provide direction, coaching, and support. The troop guide is not a member of another patrol.

Reports to: The SPL and the assistant Scoutmaster for the new-Scout patrol in the troop.

Troop guide duties:
Introduces new Scouts to troop operations.
Helps new Scouts earn First Class rank in their first year.
Teaches basic Scout skills.
Works with the patrol leader at patrol leaders’ council meetings.
Attends patrol leaders’ council meetings with the patrol leader of the new-Scout patrol.
Assists the assistant Scoutmaster with training.
Counsels individuals Scouts on Scouting challenges.
Sets a good example.
Enthusiastically and correctly wears the Scout uniform.
Lives by the Scout Oath and Law.
Shows Scout spirit.


On the side of the scout, Let me say that this is one of the most difficult POR and you need the right scout who doesn't think he's "babysitting" 11 year olds. He wants to be with his friends on campouts and not just with his patrol.

[Quailman]

He should devote himself to the new-scout patrol and not be in another patrol, even if he still wears their emblem on his sleeve.

The new patrol should get a patrol leader, though (not the Guide). They've probably been together through cub scouts and are ready to make a good selection day 1. If they are all new to each other, then they could either make a selection day 1 anywya, or wait no longer than following the first campout, when they've gotten to know each other. In my troop they elect a PL right away, but they've almost always been from one den, or at most two.

[Cowboy]

Troop Guide - Patrol Leader, nope not the same thing. They are completely seperate positions and should be kept that way. The patrol leader will not always have any idea of what is to be done, that is when the Guide should step in and guide the PL and others. The Guide should also be part of the patrol (IMO). Not a different patrol. If he is a different patrol, as you noted, he has responsibilities in that patrol. How important is it to change this? Once again, In My Opinion: Very important.

[FrankJ]

We have the new patrols elect a patrol leader right away. Which is the model in the the SM handbook. Summer camp is about the time the new patrols seem to start functioning. On the other hand, if you like the way the troop functions generally, I would not make a big deal of it. You are not going to change it overnight anyway. Maybe not until you become scout master . If this is just one thing among many, it might be a sign you need to find another troop.

[ronin718]

We have our SPL and SM screen potential PLs for the New Boy Patrols from all eligible First Class and above Scouts who express interest in taking on this role. This appointed PL serves from the March/April CoH when the patrols are organized from the recently crossed-over NBs until September when the troop reorganizes into new patrols and incorporates the new guys into the mix.

Troop Guides are also assigned to the NBPs and work with the PLs to help teach the NBs and start them along the path to First Class.

[smtroop168]

We have our SPL and SM screen potential PLs for the New Boy Patrols from all eligible First Class and above Scouts who express interest in taking on this role. This appointed PL serves from the March/April CoH when the patrols are organized from the recently crossed-over NBs until September when the troop reorganizes into new patrols and incorporates the new guys into the mix.

Troop Guides are also assigned to the NBPs and work with the PLs to help teach the NBs and start them along the path to First Class.

That's good...what you don't want is the Troop Guide to become a glorified Den Chief. also new Scout patrols only work when there are enough new scouts to make a patrol.

[ronin718]

That's good...what you don't want is the Troop Guide to become a glorified Den Chief. also new Scout patrols only work when there are enough new scouts to make a patrol.

Not a problem for us the last few years. Average crossover class has been 20-25 boys. We normally have 3 NBPs each year. Time to stop recruiting so hard.

[jr56]

Sounds like you're having a very successful program to attract that many new scouts. We have our troop "open house" tonight. It'll be interesting to see how many new scouts we are able to attract.

[ronin718]

Sounds like you're having a very successful program to attract that many new scouts. We have our troop "open house" tonight. It'll be interesting to see how many new scouts we are able to attract.

We are very outdoor-activity oriented and active in the community. Our summers are always filled with a variety of excursions for all ages. This summer we have three crews going to Philmont, four to Sea Base, two to Lenhoksin (Goshen Scout Reservation HA program), a week at Scout Camp, and several boys and adults going to the NatJamb as staff and participants.

We're almost to a point where we're a victim of our own success. We'd like to scale down a little in size (back to double digits), but when we cancelled our annual Webelos-oriented campout, the local packs cried foul. We can't split because we don't want to tell folks they can't stay with their friends, they have to go to a new troop.

The senior adult leadership is starting to transition out, so it will be interesting to see what transpires. I'm part of the not-quite-senior leadership group that has older boys who will still have 1-2 years after the transition is completed, so I'm kind of in a limbo status. I'm being told I have enough on my plate when I volunteer to take on a role, but I'm not being asked to do anything either. I guess I'll just be one of those senior advisors when the time comes.

[ThunderingWind]

The senior adult leadership is starting to transition out, so it will be interesting to see what transpires. I'm part of the not-quite-senior leadership group that has older boys who will still have 1-2 years after the transition is completed, so I'm kind of in a limbo status. I'm being told I have enough on my plate when I volunteer to take on a role, but I'm not being asked to do anything either. I guess I'll just be one of those senior advisors when the time comes.

What District are you in? I just moved to Old Dominion and I am looking for a Troop and Crew. My e-mails to the DE have fallen on deaf ears. The one contact I have here is from Patriot (I am on the edge of OD and Patriot - Lake Accotink) but is a government employee and did not give me his home e-mail.

If this unit is near me, I would welcome the chance to interview with the COR, CC and SM.

[ronin718]

What District are you in? I just moved to Old Dominion and I am looking for a Troop and Crew. My e-mails to the DE have fallen on deaf ears. The one contact I have here is from Patriot (I am on the edge of OD and Patriot - Lake Accotink) but is a government employee and did not give me his home e-mail.

If this unit is near me, I would welcome the chance to interview with the COR, CC and SM.

We're in Goose Creek (Loudoun County). Sounds like you're in Fairfax County down near Burke or Annandale. We meet in the Ashburn/Broadlands area. Our CC and soon to be COR recently stepped down from his position as Lead Membership for Council, so you might know him.

It would be a bit of a drive for you, so I don't know if this is still something you'd want to pursue.

[ThunderingWind]

I am in Springfield, on the north edge of Lake Accotink Park, about 1/4 mile down stream from the dam. This is the edge between Patriot and Old Dominion Districts.

Your unit is a bit far for me to be of any real service. I will keep looking.

I do hope to meet you at some Council events in the near future. You will find me at the Jamboree as Staff of the NER Rapelling tower.

[smtroop168]

I am in Springfield, on the north edge of Lake Accotink Park, about 1/4 mile down stream from the dam. This is the edge between Patriot and Old Dominion Districts.

Your unit is a bit far for me to be of any real service. I will keep looking.

I do hope to meet you at some Council events in the near future. You will find me at the Jamboree as Staff of the NER Rapelling tower.

Ahh c'mon what's a friendly jaunt down I-95 South worth to you to get in a quality unit? You leave your house at 1 PM so you can get to the scout meeting by 7.

And you're gonna work with Wagion at the Jambo too?

[ronin718]

Ahh c'mon what's a friendly jaunt down I-95 South worth to you to get in a quality unit? You leave your house at 1 PM so you can get to the scout meeting by 7.

And you're gonna work with Wagion at the Jambo too?

Actually, it's a jaunt around the Beltway through the HOT lane construction to the Dulles Toll Road, transitioning to the Dulles Greenway, and then just a short hop after that. Between the construction and the tolls (~$7 each way), I can't blame him. They've got some good units down his way, so I'm sure he'll find something.

Yeah, he gets to play with WV. I'll have to wander on over when I'm not pulling camp SM duty.

[smtroop168]

Ahh c'mon what's a friendly jaunt down I-95 South worth to you to get in a quality unit? You leave your house at 1 PM so you can get to the scout meeting by 7.

And you're gonna work with Wagion at the Jambo too?

Actually, it's a jaunt around the Beltway through the HOT lane construction to the Dulles Toll Road, transitioning to the Dulles Greenway, and then just a short hop after that. Between the construction and the tolls (~$7 each way), I can't blame him. They've got some good units down his way, so I'm sure he'll find something.

Yeah, he gets to play with WV. I'll have to wander on over when I'm not pulling camp SM duty.

OOPS...regardless all traffic around DC stinks. When I lived in Springfield it took me 4 hours to get there from the Navy Annex.

[ronin718]

OOPS...regardless all traffic around DC stinks. When I lived in Springfield it took me 4 hours to get there from the Navy Annex.

Oh, yeah!!! Good ol' I-395. I've always lived westbound since I moved outside the Beltway, so it's always I-66 or the Toll Road for me.

[ThunderingWind]

One change I would make to the NCAC office is put it next to a Metro stop.

From where I live in Springfield (10 minutes from the Metro by driving), I will have to take two trains and
two or three busses to the get to the Council Office.

Getting home from Council office at night is a nightmare.

[ronin718]

One change I would make to the NCAC office is put it next to a Metro stop.

Just don't put it on the Red Line. You'll never get there, and once you do, you'll never get home.