Leadership lessons from a Jamboree troop

[Fred Johnson]

I love the scouting program and all that BSA offers. It has truly enriched my life and I am better because of it. With that said….

I think BSA really really really needs to train adult leaders in "SPECIFICS" of leadership: things to do and things not to do. BSA should teach adult leaders on specifics of how and what to teach our scouts about leadership. General rules should include: Leadership should be respectful and by example and not by threats and punishments. Leadership should inspire and not humiliate. Leadership should lift everyone up, not focus on the bad egg. BSA leadership is not the military command and control, do or die leadership style.

Here are quotes from “Patrol and Troop Leadership” handbook – “Learning About Leadership”, BSA 1972:

• … you are not a leader because you wear the leader's hat. Or because you wear the patrol leader's insignia on your uniform. You are a leader only when you are getting things done through other people.”
• Almost anybody with a whip and a mean temper can get a job done. But in doing it, they usually destroy the group. And that's not leadership. The group must go on.
• True or false?  "Leader" is another word for "boss." Well, what do you mean by "boss"? A guy who pushes and orders other people around? No, a leader is not one of those. (But some people try to lead this way.) Or do you mean a boss is somebody who has a job to do and works with other people to get it done? This is true. A leader is a boss in that sense.
• True or false? Being a leader in a Scout troop is like being a leader anywhere else. This one is true. When you lead in a Scout troop, you will do many of the same things as any leader anywhere. The important thing now is Scouting gives you a chance to lead. You can learn how to lead in Scouting. You can practice leadership in Scouting. Then you can lead other groups, too. The skills you will need are very much the same.

Here’s the background for this. My son just got back from his Jamboree trip. He is re-energized for scouting and wants to earn his Eagle. That's great. Thank God for Mike Rowe, the military and the many great adult volunteers. Miss America too. She called all the scouts "young ladies" but she was still very popular too. ... Ummm... The Swedish girl scouts were very popular too.

The bad part was his jamboree troop leaders. According to him (which like many scouts can be strongly biased), his Scoutmaster was fine, but the ASMs and the personality of the troop was drastically different than his own troop and it very was difficult to adjust. Now this is a Jamboree troop. These scouts generally want to be there and you won't find a bad egg ... UNLESS YOU ARE LOOKING TO CREATE ONE. Also, these scouts did not get to pick their troop leaders and don't have an option to interview and switch to another troop. These scouts are stuck with what they get for two to five camp outs. The adult leaders are stuck too. They are not going to change the long term scouting habits over two, three or four camp outs. So there is high potential for frustration on both sides.

Specifically, my son's Jamboree troop had a strong focus on threats and punishments from the adult leaders. As always, many threats were empty threats (which are a bad lesson to teach ... rules are not rules then ... and consequences are not definite) and many threats if carried out would punish the innocent too (in-justice) ... and focus on naming a bad guy instead of changing the situation. I think the adults were focused on creating the "ideal troop" and forgot that the scouts signed up for fun and adventure. The result was a splintered troop with fractions that didn’t get along and several “bad scouts”.

Many scouts had to sing songs to get gear back. No buddy, you need to stay at camp even if it means you miss your meal times. You must wake up two adults at night to escort you if you need to use the bathroom. You can’t sit at the troop table at any time unless you are eating. I got a kick out of several of the rules they were creating because they contradicted explicit items published in the BSA Jamboree Troop Leaders Guide. Yeah, it’s published for everyone to read, not just the registered troop leaders. Several (more than three) scouts were told one more incident and they go home. When things like that happen, it's not the underlings. It's the leaders.

One incident … My son left his scarf on the picnic table at lunch and was told to sing a song. My son refused. I’m proud that he stood up for himself and refused to have someone humiliate him in front of a large group. He knew that I don't support punishments that demean people. If a punishment is needed *** which should be rare ***, it needs to be linked to the incident and make a damaged situation whole. Singing a song does not in any direct manor make tables cleaner, but it is very public and only works long term if you successfully humiliate the person and that person stays in scouting. It has far greater odds of damaging relationships in troops and causing subsequent worse treatment of other scouts in the future. That’s why hazing is not allowed!!!!!!! Duh!

Well, it did not go well. The leaders insisted and they took a small issue and made a bad problem. My son started playing with the discussion and boxed the adult leaders into approving any song as long as he knew the exact lyrics. So to teach them a lesson he choose a currently very popular hit-charts hard rock song that is violent and profane. Didn’t anyone teach these guys that current scouts don't listen to Pat Boone and Mitch Miller. They didn't ask him to sing a song again.

Many of the activities were started with a statement of the consequences if you don't participate. When forming a policing line to pick up garbage, the adult leaders warned them before they began that if you don't participate you will be punished. My son's comment was "what scout won't participate picking up garbage.... We do it at every camp out." Assuming something bad will happen is a sure fired way to get people to behave badly.

In his home troop, the only threat I've ever seen is that they can't move onto the next thing until the current thing is done. I've rarely seen punishment. I've seen corrective actions such as the troop committee talking to a scout about repeated behavior at scouting events, discussing the oath and law and it was his choice to continue or not. But if he did, he must correct his behavior in scouts. Leave the other behavior at home. If not, he should choose to participate somewhere else. But that was significant behavioral issues.

I can give you dozens and dozens and dozens of great non-Jamboree examples too. In fact today I was on a local troop web site. They are at the same summer camp we are at. Their web site on the summer camp page written for this summer says in a big RED section that "PUMP" insect repellent is against the summer camp rules. Any scout caught with PUMP insect repellent will have it confiscated AND THE SCOUT MUST DO SERVICE HOURS. What???? Service hours punishment because of the wrong type of bug spray? Was some vicious crime committed with a squeeze pump that never made the newspapers?

The council summer camp leaders manual for that exact camp for this summer has the packing list and it explicitly recommends PUMP insect repellent as something to bring. Aerosol is against the rules, but pump is okay to bring. So service hours for something that if you look at the manual given to the troop leaders from the council says they can bring it? If pumps are so dangerous, take it away and explain that we don't allow them. But why punish? I really worry about all these troops that create more rules for the sake of creating rules.

I've managed large groups at work and in scouts. My fellow adult leader in my son's troop manages a large manufacturing plant with a lot of direct interaction with the line personnel. We've dealt with many issues over the years and we’ve both had to put adults through corrective actions for big things. We've both fired adults not knowing if they will be able to feed their families. With that said, we often laugh because the problems we have with scouts are the same problems we have with 40, 50 and 60 year old's. The techniques we use at work, at scout and with our kids are the same too. Alcohol, drugs, fighting or similar, your removed. For other things... Switch and distract. Get the ball rolling by starting with something small. Praise the positive, privately correct, never punish. Lead by example. Get to know your people and what motivates them. Lift the group up, don't start by looking to put them down.

If we applied these jamboree troop techniques to work, what would happen. Poor morale. Hatred and contempt for the boss. Division. Favoritism. Avoidance. Trickery. Abuse. Example: Singing a song. Okay, anyone who does not submit their time card properly signed by 5pm on Friday must sing happy birthday at the next production floor meeting. All desks must be kept neat and clean. Weekly inspections will occur and violators will be required to stay late Friday and help the janitorial staff empty garbage. I can guarantee you that it would get ugly. If we don't treat adults like this, why do we treat scouts like this? Are we trying to push them away?

Doesn't anyone read Dilbert? Do we really want to teach leadership style of the pointy haired boss?

[Fred Johnson]

FieldSports wrote in a LOCKED discussion: I am sure glad you are proud of your son for singing a violent and profane song. The apple did not fall from the tree. I would have sent him home (and by the way it is at your expense).

You misread what I wrote. They took a small issue and created a bad problem. I was proud of him protesting being humiliated. I'm not happy at all for him choosing that song. That why I wrote they created a big problem. His song was in clearly in-appropriate and un-scout-like. He got suckered into negotiating a song at which point he boxed them into a bad song. It's the whole situation of the guy who responds gets punished. He made a bad choice in a bad situation created by the troop leadership. Both he and the leadership were at fault for that part. Like a cornered animal, scouts AND adults lash out if you treat them unfairly. That's what happened. I would have much preferred he continued to refuse to sing. That would have been a strong character decision.

I am relatively new to scout troop leadership, only eight years as a leader. And, I have yet to be on a jamboree staff. I do have 200+ nights of camping with our troop and a few high adventures. My oldest son has had 150+ nights with his home troop and another two summers of sleeping in a tent as part of scout camp staff. As an ASM, I've been on many scout camp outs and have led a good portion too when the scoutmaster could not attend.

Don't defend tactics like that troop used. You can maintain control in much better ways than using treats and punishments. That's constructive discipline. That's part of being a good leader.

I know that many old time scouters like using songs as punishment, but check out "Guide To Safe Scouting", page one. Constructive Discipline. Discipline used in Scouting should be constructive and reflect Scouting's values. Punishment of singing a song in front of group so that everyone can laugh at your expense is humiliating. It only works as a technique if the person is embarrassed and doesn't want to be up there again.

I've talked with other adults who were scouts that experienced stuff like this. They remember having to sing songs. They didn't like it. After the 1st occurrence, they would just not claim their stuff anymore. It would go in the troop lost and found.

Several months ago, my 2nd son, 12 years old, who is in a different troop faced this exact situation by an acting SPL who did it in an insulting way. The older scouts enjoyed the event. I suspect they enjoyed it because someone had humiliated them too. Now, they got their revenge by doing it to my son. My 2nd son never wanted to go back to another scout meeting. I raised this at that troops committee meeting and they are changing their policy. My son still didn't want to go back. He is transferring to his older brothers troop.

I'll accept your criticism when you can tell me how humiliating someone is constructive and reflects scout's values. The words in the scout law that I think are applicable are: friendly, courteous, kind. No friendly, courteous and kind heart says hey let's change scout behavior by embarrassing a scout who made a mistake.

Techniques like this have not place in scouting and need to be eliminated. Starting scout activities with threats assumes the worst and you will find it. That's why BSA needs to start teaching specific methods.

GOOD EXAMPLE FROM A RECENT CAMP OUT: On a recent camp out, we had a very small 11 year old scout on his 3rd camp out. It was cold and rained most the weekend. He was exhausted. When packing up Sunday morning, he just sat there looking at the ground. The SPL and PLs (who were both relatively new) were frustrated. We did not tell them to threaten a punishment. That would have made the situation worse. We worked with the SPL/PL to find a way to change the scout's behavior. They started small. Could you hold this tent bag? (he could do it while sitting). Then they got him into the mode of holding it open and helping get the tent in there. Of course, he realized on his own as the other two scouts help stuff it in, that if he stood it would be easier. So, he stood up without asking. Okay, walk it to the trailer and put it in. The tent was already in the scout's hands without him realizing what happened and he was already standing. Those older scouts learned a very valuable lesson that they could change behavior and change a non-participant into a helper. They also learned that sometimes easy routine things seem overwhelming to a new person. They were 14. He was 11. It's not a matter of the 11 year old being a bad scout. Its about shaping that scout into what you want him to be. THAT'S LEADERSHIP.

The previous thread was locked. I'll now stop replying now that I was able to defend my original posting.

[RWSmith]

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