Scoutmaster Legal Problems

[fritz1255]

Another difficult issue for our Troop (we seem to have had more than our share). Our Scoutmaster is having financial problems, and has some civil suits filed against him as a result. The Council has found out about this, and is in the process of kicking him out of Scouting as a result. What specific statute or code allows them to do this? Are there written codes of conduct (if so, where do I find chapter and verse?), or is this at the discretion of the Council (some sort of character issue)? Trying to see what our options are for defending him.

[wagionvigil]

That is a civil matter not a criminal matter and should not be an issue

[evmori]

Financial problems by themselves are not a valid reason to kick someone out of Scouting. If the SM has used Troop or District or Council fund for his own personal use then there is a problem.

[FrankJ]

The charter org & the council do not have to have a reason. You can be removed for no reason at all. One hopes that they would be fair. Perhaps they know more than what is not public. I would talk to your unit's commissioner or the district commissiner. Talk to your Charter Org. They would probally carry more weight.

[fritz1255]

The Chartered Organization has nothing to do with this; it came from Council. The Scoutmaster has not misused Troop funds (I am Committee Chair, I would know about it). There may indeed be more to this than I know, but it sounds like there is no writtten "code of conduct" for adult leaders, and the Council can act at their own discretion. When I was informed of what was happening by the Council Exec, he told me that our Scoutmaster was being removed, but he would not tell me why. Our Scoutmaster met with the Committee to explain.

[Billiken]

Our Scoutmaster met with the Committee to explain.

And what was said?

FWIW, there's got to be more to it than what's public....at least I hope there is.

[wagionvigil]

I know of several people that sit on council committees that have had problems so I would guess there is alot more to it then meets the eye. Again if it is not a criminal matter it is no ones business.

[fritz1255]

All I know at this point from his explanation is that there are Civil Court judgements against him. I presume this is because of money that he owes and has not paid, or financial commitments that he has made and not been able to deliver. If there were some type of uniform code of conduct, we would be able to defend him against that, or would have to give up the fight as being obviously lost because he is in violation. I'm still confused!

[ASM-142]

I do not know the facts about this case but going by the Scout Oath and Law should be enough. If this person made financial committments and did not live up to them ....

[FrankJ]

The CE owes the charter org an explanation since the charter org has the primary responiblity to provide leadership. I understand & respect that the CE would not discuss reasons with other people, but the CC & Charter Org. deserve a fuller explanation. Just my opinion.

[Scouting179]

Based on what you said (ie, what do we NOT know), I'd have to say they do not have a valid reason. Also, I'm always been told the SM works for the committee chair, who can hire and fire the SM. Of course, since the chartered org signs all adult apps, they have a say in it too.

[vpalango]

Based on what you said (ie, what do we NOT know), I'd have to say they do not have a valid reason. Also, I'm always been told the SM works for the committee chair, who can hire and fire the SM. Of course, since the chartered org signs all adult apps, they have a say in it too.

First, I'm not endorsing the council's actions, but....

You are right, the Commttee hires/fires a SM. The original post is that the council is revoking the SMs membership in the BSA, which is in thier purview. Also note, that the charter agreement between the chartered organization specifies that leadership will meet the requriements of both the CO and the BSA. So the council does have the right to revoke membership/leadership.

That being said, I don't think any of us have enough information to really understand this case. I can't immagine that the civil action stated is the only issue, only the one which is publicly known.

Just my $.02

[Caggy]

This sounds much like a situation that I am aware of in our council.

For a scouter to be denied membership for cause one would imagine that that we have not heard the whole story. It is unlikely the only cause was a number of civil actions.

In the case I am aware of the scouter in question (actually very well respected locally and regionally having held professional positions within scouting for many years) defrauded people and was brought up on criminal charges not once, but several times over a span of some years. He was not convicted and jailed only because he was required to pay restitution for passing bad checks.

He used his position in scouting to engender trust in fellow scouters to leverage money from them which he never repaid (or worse repaid with a bad check). Once one case of this fraudulent practice (that had gone on for many years) was revealed several more came to light, as well as several attempts to get money from other scouters.

Once made aware of these things the council and region denied him membership and for good cause. This man was preying on the scouting community using his position to fraudulent ends.

I know the man and had this simply been a series of business setbacks, bad debts or honest financial troubles I would see it differently. Seeing him denied membership in scouting has been dismaying and painful for myself and others, especially his troop but in the end it had to be done. It may be that the case you are speaking of is similar so get all of the facts behind his dismissal.

[WeeWillie]

The 1st point of the Scout Law is "a Scout is Trustworthy." If you look in some of the older Scout handbooks you will find an explaination as to what being trustworth meant. The explanation ended with. "A Scout's Honor is to be trusted. If he were to violate that trust by telling lie, cheating, or stealing he can be directed by his Scoutmaster to hand over his Scout Badge."

A Scoutmaster, is above all an example. If a Scoutmaster is facing a civil action there is valid reason to question his trustworthiness. That is reason enough to remove him from being Scoutmaster until his civil action is resolved.

If the local council is aware of a civil action against a scout leader, it has every right to remove that leader. Regardless, that leader still has a right to privacy, which BSA is obligated to honor. That probably explains why the reason for removal is not common knowlege.

As difficult as it is to recruit and retain good Scoutmasters, Assistant Scoutmasters, Committee Chairs and Committee Members I don't see local councils removing them without substantial reason(s).