adhd

[mhjacobson]

Just a few comments: Yep! there may be some cases where ADHD may be misdiagnosed, but this is usually where the behavior of the kid tends to lead one to that diagnosis. ADHD is usually diagnosed by the teacher, the parents, and some other individuals who have knowledge of the child completing an ADHD behavior checksheet.

Also important to remember that some kids are ADHD in some environments and not in others. This can be due to the the nature of the environment. An ADHD kid will be more (relatively) hyperactive in school which is expected to be quiet, than when on a kike, where he is expected to be active.

The best treatment is to have an environment that is structured in such a manner as to allow the scout to be active but with some control to ensure his safety and the ability of others around the scout to also enjoy the experience. The development of a good relationship between the scout and his fellow scouts and the leaders is essential for success.

The BSA has an excellent guild on Scouts with ADHD. We are in the process of developing a more comprehensive manual on Scouts with Disabilities. It is in final stages of development and will be sent to the reviewers in the next few weeks!

[lambeausam]

Just a few comments: Yep! there may be some cases where ADHD may be misdiagnosed, but this is usually where the behavior of the kid tends to lead one to that diagnosis. ADHD is usually diagnosed by the teacher, the parents, and some other individuals who have knowledge of the child completing an ADHD behavior checksheet.

I work with special needs scouts at both the Cub Scout and Boy Scout level. Additionally, all three of my sons have special needs. I just wanted to comment on the last sentence on the above quote. Under no circumstances should an educator or parent diagnose a child with ADHD. They certainly can provide a qualified evaluator with the observations necessary to make the diagnosis, but the actual diagnosis should come from a medical professional.

Sam

[Nuts4Scouts]

there may be some cases where ADHD may be misdiagnosed, but this is usually where the behavior of the kid tends to lead one to that diagnosis. ADHD is usually diagnosed by the teacher, the parents, and some other individuals who have knowledge of the child completing an ADHD behavior checksheet.

ADHD can not be diagnosed by teachers, parents, or misc individuals. ADHD is a medical problem and can only be diagnosed by a medical professional, usually one who is an expert in the field of brain disorders. This diagnoses is usually arrived at after extensive testing which includes medical, physical, & mental aspects. The behavior checklists which are completed by teachers & parents are only one of the many tools used by the medical professional in the evaluation process.

Yes, ADHD can be misdiagnosed, but that is because the symptoms of ADHD are similar to those of other disorders. If you have a doctor who is unfamiliar these disorders, and adequate testing was not done, then a misdiagnosis is possible. Also, ADHD very rarely travels alone. Usually it is accompanied by other disorders such as ODD, depression, Bipolar Disorder, anxiety, learning disabilities, Conduct Disorder, & Tourette's Syndrome.

some kids are ADHD in some environments and not in others

A person with ADHD, like a person with any other disease, can not have it one day & not have it the next. That is a medical impossibility. If you have ADHD, you have it for life. Some people are able to manage it better than others. Some activities work "with" the disorder better than others. Some techniques work better than others at keeping those with ADHD on task and involved in an activity. However, an individual with ADHD will still be ADHD in all environments, all the time.

[summertop]

I have a son that MAY have ADD. We took him in for some testing and it was inconclusive. He had a teacher that started treating him like he was a "bad" kid and his schooling turned for the worse. We did notice he got distracted easily/quickly. but he wasn't really what you would consider hyper. That is why we had him tested.

The doctor decided to try him with a minimal dosage of ritalin. We told the teacher that my son had to take the medication (and why). The biggest change I saw was in the teacher, not my son. The teacher was much more patient and understanding. My son excelled again. A few years ago, we stopped having my son take ritalin. He is still doing great. I think the biggest issue was a poor teacher.

We need to be patient and understanding leaders for these boys. They may have ADD/ADHD or they may just be going through a "phase" in their lives. Regardless, we need to give these boys the caring and respect they deserve and need.

I have had kids that had clinical diagnoses for problems. I have had kids that were just problems (still good kids). So far, in all cases dealing with my scouts, the first three things I have are:

1. Genuine caring for the boys. I want them to be happy. That comes before my want for them to be Eagle.

2. Patience. It seems that the boys try my patience most when I show it least.

3. Understanding. Everybody wants to be understood and accepted.

4. Living the scout oath. We ask the boys to live this. They expect us to live it in return. Don't forget that part of the scout oath is to obey the scout law.

With scouts that truely have ADD/ADHD, these might not be enough. But, without these, it never will be enough.

[mhjacobson]

Ahha! Something missing from my last post:

It should have read, ADHD is usually diagnosed by a Doctor using the information from checksheets completed by the teacher, parent, and other individuals who have knowledge of the child, and other information provided to the doctor.

My apologies for thinking faster than I type! (and I should know how ADHD is diagnosed after my 35+ years as a child psychologist and Special Education program supervisor).

[616kayak]

some kids are ADHD in some environments and not in others

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe what you mean is that people with ADHD may exhibit the symptoms of ADHD in some environments while in different environments the symptoms may not be present. present.

[mhjacobson]

NO -- nothing to do with the symptoms. ADHD is often situational. I know of many kids who have been diagnosed as ADHD based upon their behaviors at school, while the scoutmaster reports that there are no problem behaviors. What is the difference? -- the environment and the expectations on the kids in the setting.

[Lynda J]

I have seen the same thing. Kids diagnosed ADHD with no problem when parents are not around. The minute mom or dad show up they are suddenly out of control. I saw this as far back as 30 years ago when I was teaching. Still see it working with Scouts.

[Nuts4Scouts]

ADHD does NOT appear and disappear. To say that it does, is not only inaccurate, but is doing those children & families that suffer from this disability a HUGH disservice.

If an ADHD child has "problems" at school and none, that the SM notices, at a Troop meeting, there can be many reasons for this.

The school day is usually around 7-8 hours long. The average Troop meeting is 2 hours.

At school kids are expected to be quiet & sit for 95% of those 7-8 hours. This is very hard for an ADHD child. A Troop meeting is usually rather active. The ADHD child gets to use some of his activity & is not required to sit still & be quiet for those 2 hours.

Different people are interacting with the ADHD child at the two activities. Perhaps there are children/adults in the school setting that tease or otherwise set off the ADHD child. The ADHD child could get along well with his fellow Scouts.

Medication differences. The child could be coming off meds by lunchtime at school. The ADHD child could be using a booster med after school.

The SM just does not have a clue as to what this child's behavior really is.

ADHD is not "situational". It is always present. For various reasons the symptoms might not always show up in the same exact manner, but the child still suffers from ADHD.

Also, as I noted in my other post, a diagnosis of ADHD is NOT EVER based solely on behaviors at school.


And, as to ADHD kids acting different, or out of control, when parents are around, that is a totally different issue. In that instance the children are trying to control their parents, and the same behaviors can be seen in many "regular" kids as well.

[summertop]

Also, maybe the scout was misdiagnosed as having ADHD. It is my understanding that diagnosing ADHD is very difficult. There is not a clinical test to "prove" it.

[OldGreyBear]

Ah, ADHD, at one time it was unheard of, now it seems like 50% of the country's youth have it and as a pediatrician friend says it may be underdiagnosed. One of the traits of the ADHD child is distractability and concentration impairment, particularly in subjects of little or no interest.

This explains the ADHD child who cant sit still at school but can be rivited to a video game for hours and nothing can take his attention away from the screen. We would hope that a scout meeting has little in common with the childs routine school day. Interesting subjects taught in a hands on environment with few rules should be paradise for ADHD children, but it doesnt mean that dont have ADHD, its there, just not triggered.

As far as kids acting up when parents are presents, thats not a ADHD thing, I am sure many things contribute to that, but ADHD isnt one of them

[gwd-scouter]

"One of the traits of the ADHD child is distractability and concentration impairment, particularly in subjects of little or no interest. This explains the ADHD child who cant sit still at school but can be rivited to a video game for hours and nothing can take his attention away from the screen"

I think this describes almost every teenage boy I know, including my son, whether they have ADHD or not!

[FrankJ]

We probably all have some symptoms of ADHD. It is only when the symptoms rise to a level that interferes with life does it get diagnosed as a disorder, and even then it exists in degrees. That one of the reasons that diagnoses is difficult & relies on observations of lay people as well as a doctor. Coping skills can be learned that is why AHHD might seem to go away with maturity. As with every one, a thorough understanding of their strengths and weakness helps greatly. ADHD is not an excuse for disrespect or direct disobedience.

One of the things I really like about scouting is that it teaches teams to work with their strength and overcome their weakness.

[616kayak]

Also, for a behavior to be considered evidence of a psychological disorder, such as ADHD, the behavior must be atypical, disturbing, maladaptive, and unjustifiable.

[FrankJ]

I know a lot of people with ADHD who are not disturbing, maladaptive, or unjustifiable. atypical--maybe. but then who wants to be normal? Along with ADHD comes some positive traits such as the ability to think outside the box.

[evmori]

I have seen the same thing. Kids diagnosed ADHD with no problem when parents are not around. The minute mom or dad show up they are suddenly out of control. I saw this as far back as 30 years ago when I was teaching. Still see it working with Scouts.

These situations always make me scratch my head & ask myself "Self, is this boy really ADHD or does he just know how to work mom & dad?"

[JazerNorth]

I have one that is truly ADHD. I have seen him with and without his medication. There is a huge difference. Also, I have one (used to be two) who think they are ADHD (ok, I don't really know for sure). Both of these boys I have seen with and without their medication. Nothing really different, except they might act up a bit, but all boys act up a bit. These last two I am betting they are attention deficit from adults. Parents absolutely do not pay attention to their sons. So, yeah they are attention deficit in getting attention.

The one boy that does have ADHD gets lots of attention from his parents, and acts like a teenage boy when he has his medication. When he doesn't, watch out, it can become very odd.

My 2cents worth.

JazerNorth

[616kayak]

I know a lot of people with ADHD who are not disturbing, maladaptive, or unjustifiable. Atypical--maybe. but then who wants to be normal? Along with ADHD comes some positive traits such as the ability to think outside the box.

For a behavior to be used as evidence of a psychological disorder it must fall under MUDA. If it meets 3/4 of them it is not considered as evidence. This is according to the DSM-IV-TR used for diagnosing psychological disorders.

[mhjacobson]

Hey guys: I got suckered in and now realize that this thread has become a forum for arm chair psychologists. It is not important for us to know anything other than how to deal with kids who may or may not be diagnoses as ADHD who are exhibiting behaviors that effect the ability to fully gain from the scouting program and which may interfere with the enjoyment of scouting on the part of some of their fellow scouts.

What we should be talking about is what works in your troop and what does not seem to work. It is not important whether or not a kid is diagnosed; when he acts ADHD, and when not; what is important is how the kid acts in your toop and how what you do effects what he does!

[FrankJ]

I would have to agree with mhjacobson. What is important is what works and making the program work for the scouts. Not the label. Sorry for going off the deep end.

BTW I perfer the couch to the armchair.