Adult taking over too much

[jhawk]

What is a nice way to tell an ASM that he is doing waaaaay too much that the SPL should be doing, or be having his ASPL or PLs do? This guy means well, and he gives lip service to being boy-run, but then he keeps doing things he has been asked not to do for the boys. So, besides continuing to tell him to let the boys do it, is there an effective yet polite way to get the point across better?

[RWSmith]

I've notice that good position-specific training (or, "re-training" for old-timers) tends to get the leader thinking/acting on the correct line for the job in question.

Other than that, some of us are just plain hard-headed and simply incapable of taking the hint(s). In such cases, you get the oldest, wisest, Scouter this guy really looks up to/respects and have him pulled off to the side and privately "set straight", so to speak.

[Quailman]

If he's like me, he probably knows that the boys should be doing more while he does less, but he keeps forgetting. Just kick him each time he forgets. I catch myself doing way too much, and I wish someone else, if they saw me sooner, would stop me. Last night's meeting is a perfect example. The boys were practicing knots (I enjoy knots), and they paired off, except nither of two new scouts knew the knots to begin with. Stupid me! I finished explaining one knot and then stood up and excused myself. I got an older boy to take over. I asked the other leaders and parents to please stop me when I get too involved.

Only you know the situation, but it may well be that your ASM is like me and needs constant reminding. I even try not to stay too close to them when they are doing things like lashings. It's too easy for them to ask me something, when they should be asking their patrol leader.

[Mrw]

It might be that he needs to have the SPL and ASPL ask him to stop helping too much.

My son had this conversation with his father during his Eagle project. It took two weekends and during the middle of the week my son copmplained to me that his dad was trying to be in charge. I sent him off to tell Dad himself. Dad said that my son was not organizing things as well as he could. (Dad is a bit of a control freak and has never been otherwise involved with scouts since the boys crossed over from Cubs).

My son told him in a very firm way that "It is my project and I want to do it my way." Dad did back down on this one.

When I see a need to intervene and get the boys back on track or get someone help with a requirement, I try to always send the boy off to ask one of the older boys who seem to think their role is "supervising."

[scubascout]

Try to get the ASM involved with other "adult stuff" like finalizing plans for a trip, or getting information about something

[WeeWillie]

What is the outdoor proficiency of the other troop leaders? Perhaps he could work with other adults.

Do you have a New Scout Patrol? Bridging is coming soon!

[hacimsaalk]

talk with the SM, or simply tell hm that it isnt his job, the SPL and ASPL would rather do it.

[Lynda J]

It might also be a good idea to have the SPL, ASPL and PL's sit down with him and explain that the only why they can learn to lead is if they are allowed to lead and handle what their jobs are.

This sounds like a man that wants everything to be perfect for his kids. Not understanding that by making everything perfect he does not teach them to live in an imperfect world. Kids need to make mistakes.
My wonderfully wise dad use to say. "Kids will learn more from making a mistake and figureing out how to correct it then they will from a parent preventing them from making mistakes." He was right then and he is still right.

[jhawk]

Actually, he isn't as proficient as the other adults or even most of the boys--he just thinks he has to do everything. He has the least outdoor skills of the leaders, so he can't really help there. I would rather he not help the new scouts we are getting in 2 weeks because I want them to learn from someone who will let them do things. The older boys do a great job leading and teaching skills. I think the guy means well. He usually ends up doing more harm than good, though, because he doesn't know what he is doing a lot of the time. I think he has been to training, but he is arrogant enough to think he knows better than others and does what he wants. He tends to scoff at the rules.
Maybe there just isn't a very nice way to put it and he just needs to be told more firmly that he is overstepping....

[Mrw]

If he has been told and isn't really getting it, then blunt and to the point is probably best. Make sure that your older boys/troop leadership know they can tell him to step back and let them handle it too. Just be sure they know to do it firmly and respectfully while someone else runs for SM back-up.

[Quailman]

Sorry to go off topic. This isn't really helpful but I have to post it here.

When my oldest son crossed over to boy scouts I went on a campout as a parent-guest. When they were unloading the trailer we were told that if a boy asked for help we should say "Ask your patrol leader." Sure enough, within a minute a boy came up to me and asked, "Where are the tent stakes?" I replied, "Go ask your patrol leader." He started to turn away, paused, and said, "I am the patrol leader." Lucky for me there was an ASM present who added, "Then go find the Senior Patrol Leader."

The other leaders should step in and be blunt. I am actually disappointed when I catch myself helping too much when there are leaders around who should have stopped me sooner. Of course, unlike the leader you're talking about, I am quite proficient at all scout skills, plus I'm self taught.

[Lynda J]

Love it. Thanks for a good laugh.

[hacimsaalk]

:lol: Love it. Thanks for a good laugh.

ditto

[ronin718]

My son crossed over in September and I've been playing "helpful dad" on the various camping trips since I'm still a silver-tab on the Cub side. Early on in my helpfulness I stepped over the line, and the SM gently reminded me that the boys are supposed to be leading these activities, and I should be referring the boys to their PL/SPL where needed. I've gotten good at seeing something wrong, finding a PL or SPL, and pointing.

Maybe it's time the SM in question sit down with the subject ASM and say "back off or step down". Yes, it's hard not to jump in, but this is the boy's program, not the adult's.

[scubascout]

my dad was our weblos leader, so he crossed over with me but decided to "help out". He was a scout, so he understood the "boy run" part but he just asks the scoutmaster, spl, or pl if he can help

[jhawk]

To clarify, I don't mean this guy wants to just help the boys too much, I mean he tries to run everything. Good example--last week he took it upon himself to call everyone who signed up to do a service project because one parent didn't want to do it after signing up. He told everyone on the phone that he was calling for the SPL. Then he told me the project would still be done, just at a later date. Now it is cancelled entirely. There were plenty of adults and scouts to do the project. He wasn't even on the list to help. He just spoke with the one adult who wanted to back out and said it was cancelled for everyone. He called the SPL and told him no one wanted to do it and it was cancelled. The SPL took him at his word and thought it was because everyone had backed out. There was no other reason for the cancellation and there was no reason for him to be involved in it. He is a bit of a control freak. The really bad part is that he is also the CC....

[RWSmith]

The really bad part is that he is also the CC....

Ruh-row.

[Mrw]

You should have told us he was CC in the first place...

I don't really know what to say about a control freak in what he sees as the position in charge - very scary!

Probably wouldn't be pretty, but the SPL or PLC needs to tell the guy he overstepped and that they are very unhappy that the project was cancelled without their approval. Emphasize how much he messed up everyone else's schedule by changing their plans.

[jr56]

How does the rest of the committee feel? If they want to, he can be removed as CC.

[Fibonacci]

It is my understanding that ASMs cannot also be on the Troop Committee. Adults must register as one or the other. So how can this person be an Asst Scoutmaster AND the Committee Chair?

In our troop, sometimes ASMs and the SM attend committee meetings, but only registered Committee Members (MC) are allowed to vote.