Either the Leaders or the Scout

[T129ASM]

Here is a situation that just came up in our Troop. Any suggestions on how to address it would be great!

When the Troop got back from an outing, a parent and one of our Leaders had a physical altercation, ie: the Leader pulled the parent off of another boy, they were wrestling. The parent got upset, picked up her Scout, who was not involved, and went home. She then contacted the police, who contacted the leader at home. Both the leader and her husband are leaders in our Troop. Now, the two leaders have told the SM that if the Scout (again, was not involved) comes back to a meeting, they will resign. They are basically concerned that the parent could cause problems in the future. The Scout has not been a problem in any way, and during discussions with the parent and the husband, believe that there was a misunderstanding. The two leaders will not budge.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!!

[wagionvigil]

Whom was wrestling? Regardless there is no room in this organization for anyone that would use physical force while at a scouting function other than to save a life. THe Leaders that were involved in the physical Confrontation are gone! In addition I would suggest to the parent of the kid that was pulled Off by the other parent to file charges. I am a retired educator and unless someone is in danger of physical harm would I be allowed to touch a kid and even then I could be charged but in Pa it would never stick for An educator.

[T129ASM]

The wrestlers were the parent and another boy. The families are good friends, regardless, it shouldn't have gone on at what was left of the Troop function. That much is acknowledged. The leader saw most of what happened, apparently became concerned for the boy (YPT), and pulled the parent off of the boy.

Hope this helps!

[wagionvigil]

If The person Wrestling with the Boy is registered with the BSA he is probably gone. We had a leader that did much the same thing and a parent called the SE and that was it letter was in the Mail that day. The Leader that pulled him off is probably just a guilty he should have just told him to get off and that should have been enough.

[T129ASM]

Thank you for all the replies and views. Hopefully I can clarify a little.

Let me clarify. Parent A comes to pick up Scout A. She gets into a tussel with boy C. Leader B catches the tail end of the wrestling match (was in good fun), physically removes parent A from boy C. Parent A leaves, then contacts police later with questions about whether that was legal or not. Leader B and husband (also a leader) gets extremely, demands that parent A and Scout A leave the troop or they will. Scout A had nothing to do with wrestling match. Parent A realizes that she over reacted, expressed apology to me and SM. Leader B and husband will not accept any apology. Leader B and parent A do not have any history, Scout A has only been with troop about 2 months, with no problems at all, in fact, is a model Scout. Parent A has even said that she is willing to stay away from any function as long as Scout A can remain in the troop. Yes, we are calling a meeting of all the other leaders to discuss this, tomorrow night, in fact. Just wanted a some outside input. Also, Leader B is our Committee Chair, husband B is an ASM. Also, they will probably leave the unit in less than a year, Scout B (their son) is finishing up his Eagle.

To answer why parent B was removed from boy C, apparently Leader B didn't know it was in fun, and that parent B and boy C were family friends and this happens a lot.

I hope this makes this as clear as mud!!

Thanks!!

[Fibonacci]

I followed all of it till this:

To answer why parent B was removed from boy C, apparently Leader B didn't know it was in fun, and that parent B and boy C were family friends and this happens a lot.

Did you mean to write

To answer why parent A was removed from boy C, apparently Leader B didn't know it was in fun, and that parent A and boy C were family friends and this happens a lot.

I think that Parent A, a woman, needs to learn some personal boundaries. It is NOT okay to wrestle with a pre-teen or teen boy. I would have separated them as well.

However, Leader B is taking this too far. I hope there is a way for things to calm down and for both Leader B and spouse to remain in the troop without forcing Scout A to withdraw. But if they are unable to accept a heartfelt apology from Parent A, to ask for Parent A to stay away, and to allow Scout A to remain, then you need to say goodbye to Leader B and spouse.

[AquilaNegra2]

Parent B is out of line. It wasn't her place to pull Parent A off the Scout (especially if this wasn't something where either was being hurt.) She should have gone to the SM, or verbally challenged them first, rather than jumping into what she thought was a physical altercation. As far as it not being okay to wrestle with a teenaged boy, I disagree. It depends upon the relationship between the parties. There are several adults who have grown up with mine and whose boundaries are different than people they have met as teens. Scouts probably isn't the best place to do that, especially if there are boys that don't know them, but it's not something I'd kick someone out for.

Sounds like Parent A overreacted. Why would she call the police? Did someone make a threat (veiled or otherwise) to her? But she realized her mistake and it seems that she is trying to make it right. Why does Parent B want her gone? I'd bet there is a lot more to the story. Does Parent B want her gone because she called the police? (I probably would if the police showed up at my door over something that should have been handled between the adults at the Scout meeting.) Or, does Parent B want her gone because she thinks the action was inappropriate? It does matter. If it's the former, I'd side with B. If it's the latter, with A.

[wagionvigil]

This is really confusing and my mind can only take so much. You need to have a sit down with all parties involved. I would also say you better hope your council exec does not catch wind of this. As I said this was improper at a scout event. Can you imagine if the scout was female and the Adult was a male?

[evmori]

Sounds like someone got involved in something they didn't need to! And the problem is the parents (as usual) not the Scouts.

[kwildman]

I think we need to review the video replay on this one because it is totally impossible to follow. i would say that at a scout function leaders and parents should not be wrestling with scouts regardless of whether they are friends or not. There is a time and place for everything and that is not it. The only exception would be if there was an organized group activity such as Indian stick wrestling or leg wrestling.

Also parents need to realize that at meetings or troop functions the primary registered leaders are in charge. Period.

[WeeWillie]

You have a reportable YP Issue. Police are involved! Call Council immediately and report it! They may send a trained Professional Scouter. Your troop does not have the training and objectivity to handle the situation. I've had two YP issues as SM and the sooner Council gets involved the better.

[evmori]

You have a reportable YP Issue. Police are involved! Call Council immediately and report it! They may send a trained Professional Scouter. Your troop does not have the training and objectivity to handle the situation. I've had two YP issues as SM and the sooner Council gets involved the better.

No you don't! The police were contacted by a non-leader parent well after the incident. You might inform your DE of what transpired so he/she isn't blindsided.

[FrankJ]

These does not sound like a youth protection issue to me, but it does need to be resolved by people on the ground rather than the internet. If it were me, I would say the adults need training in whats appropriate on a scout outing, conflict resolution, and anger management. Mostly it sounds like people need to cool off & remember the scout law (not just for youth anymore).

If the youth was uninvolved, I would also say it is for the boys & whomever cannot deal with that needs to go.

[smtroop168]

This situation does make my head hurt.

I always love when the solution is "I'm gonna quit!" Bottom line is that the program is for the boys. Leaders that want to ban a scout from the Troop for something the parent did need to go anyway.

Thank them for their time to the Troop, tell them the BSA does not ban Scouts (except in egregious situations) and that the boy is always welcome. No boy should EVER be denied the opportunity to be a Scout!

[PGH]

Without getting into the ins and outs of the situation; as a general rule when you have adults stamping their feet and giving it's me or him ultimatums your best bet is to call their bluff and see if they leave. The Scout, who has done nothing wrong, should not suffer because a couple of adults can't calm down.

[Quailman]

This sounds like a case study from a SM or CC leadership class, where the participants say to themselves, "I'm glad we won't have to face anything like this in real life."

Clearly, the adult who "got into a tussle" with a scout is wrong, but that's why we should have trained leaders present. The leader should not have gotten physically involved. The parent (apparently not a trained scout leader) was perhaps within her rights to contact police, having been physically assaulted (pulled off the scout) by another adult. Since that incident occurred at a scout function and police have been contacted by an aggrieved party, I think that council or DE should be informed of the situtation.

And I agree that (a) the scouts should not be penalized, and (b) the leaders who are threatening to quit should be encouraged to. I might even ask Parent A to take YPT so she can understand the BSA position on what went on, and then invite her to become a committee member. I certainly would not make her staying away a condition of her son's involvement in the troop.

[cballman]

If parent A was wrestling with another child other than her own and someone else broke them up then I see no problem with that. If parent A called the police then I would have to say that parent A was wrong and should be held over for child abuse. whether it was all in fun or not that type of activity does not have its place in scouting. PERIOD. This parent has decided to step away and that would be great lets not hurt the kids in this matter but make sure that parent A does not want to start more trouble. I had something of the same thing happen a few years ago. I broke up a shoving match between two boys and then one of them pulled a knife on me. I took the knife away and sat on the child until he calmed down a little. I was told I was not to have taken the knife away and should not have sat on the child. Now after about 25 years since that incident I think I should have just let him stab me and then maybe I would have had a leg to stand on. NOT I think I did the right thing then and I would probly do the same thing again if I was larger then the kids.

[FrankJ]

Drifting off the original issue a bit... Charlie if allowed himself to be stabbed, he may not have a leg to stand on. I like to think that I would do something similar in that situation.

[scoutaholic]

This whole issue is a being blown way out of proportion.

If the issue really comes down to the boy or the leaders leaving the unit, then the boy should usually win. Volunteers can be found to fill the vacancies in troop leadership. It's much harder to fill vacancies in the boys life.

If Johnny A wants to stay in the troop even though Mr & Mrs B are acting like idiots, then he should be allowed. Having a parent who occasionally acts inappropriately is no reason to banish Johnny.

If Mr B (ASM) and Mrs B (CC) want to leave the unit, then let them go.

From the description, it sounds like - Mrs B overreacted when she pulled Mrs A from the wrestling match. Mrs A overreacted by calling the police. Mrs B overreacted again when the police showed up by threatening to quit. Mrs A overreacted again offering to stay away. Mrs A and Mrs B both need to learn to act like adults. Maybe a few doses of Prozac would solve these problems best.

Has anyone talked to Mr/Mrs C about what happened with their son?
Has anyone asked SM D his oppinion?

[kwildman]

Charlie - NOTHING in YPT prevent you from defending yourself. You are allowed to use reasonable force to disarm and neutralize the situation.

Regarding the OP and based on the less than clear facts, I think the scout leader had an obligation to stop whatever rough housing/wrestling was occurring between a scout and a parent if it was deemed in their opinion to be inappropriate for the troop activity. It should be made clear to the parent what the boundaries of acceptable behavior are for scouting events and that if she can not accept them then she is not welcome.

Leader B should be told that Scout A will not be removed as he did nothing wrong and that it is not their responsibility to decide what happens to Parent A. The committee should decide what actions to take with Parent A. I would look at replacing Leader B because anyone that makes those kind of ultimatums are not the type of leaders you want in your unit.