Having older boys sign off requirements

[mhjacobson]

I agree with the poster who stated that if the SM allows certain youth leaders to sign off on requirements, then the signatures should be trusted.

IT IS NOT THE ROLE OF THE SCOUTMASTER'S CONFERENCE OR THE BOR TO RETEST SCOUTS to determine whether or not they know the requirements. If the SM believes that some review is necessary, then he has to review WHO IS SIGNING OFF on the requirements, rather than the individual scouts.

The program is very definite when it states: "NOTHING LESS NOTHING MORE" than what is established in the procedures for advancement.

[WeeWillie]

Last week I came across the 1959 version of the Patrol Leaders Handbook. Here is a summary of the 1st requirement of a Patrol Leader.

Be a 1st Class Scout. Be responsible for the advancement of younger Scouts in your patrol. Sign off on the Advancement Card when a Scout has met the requiremnent. B.T. (Before Troop Master) each rank had an advancement card similar to Merit Badge Blue Cards.

When I was a patrol leader, 1969, I had sign off authority. I hope to institute that policy in my troop this year if I can get my PLs better trained.

[vpalango]

Don't have my list in front of me, but this year I specifically created a chart for my patrol leaders, SPLs, etc... on who can approve what requirements. As part of our first PLC meeting of the year, I let them know my expectations on sign-offs, and plan on using this as a less in accountability for sign-offs.

Remeber, some of the requirements explicitly call for SM signoff, and some I'd prefer an SPL/ASPL/INSTRUCTOR to sign off, as opposed to a PL.

Again, I move as much of it as possible to the boys, and this is something that we all have to be creative and flexible with in our own units. As my troop matures (I've mentioned before the extreme youth of my troop), I'm sure I'll delegate even more signoff authority.

YIS,

[stevejb68]

Our troop allows boys who are First Class and higher to sign off requirements for younger boys working on the first three ranks with the understanding that they are responsible for making sure that the Scout does actually know about and completes the requirement. In fact, we expect the older boys to be doing this as part of their leadership within the troop. When this older Scout comes to the scoutmaster, or an assistant, for his board of review this part of his leadership could be discussed, especially if we have found he did not take his responsiblitiy seriously.

Steve B
Scoutmaster, Troop 68, CMC

[longhorneagle]

In my troop any scout above First Class can sign off requirements for Tenderfoot through First Class ranks. This allows the older more experience scouts the opportunity to share their knowledge of scouting skills and begins to give leadership responsibilities to our scouts. Our scouts do not sign off the scout sprit requirement which is part of our scoutmaster conferences or the Safety Afloat/Safe Swim Defense requirements which in our troop must be signed off by a adult who holds that certification.

The Troop Guides are usually the scouts who sign off the most requirements because they are responsible for creating and carrying out a plan for give our new scouts the opportunity to learn the skills needed to achieve First Class within their first year in boy scouting.

If there is a problem with a scout abusing his privilege to sign off requirements that privilege is taken away from him until he can prove he is responsible enough to be allowed to sign off other scouts requirements. While a scout may never be retested a scout who just signs off requirements when they should not might not meet the requirement for each rank to demonstrate scout sprit since they were not trustworthy.

[scouter01]

for our troop its Star and above. has worked out fine to my knowledge

[cescout]

We only let the SPL and ASPL, or who ever is teaching the class even if it is a scout.

[scubascout]

we let spl, aspl, troop guide, and patrolo leader initial next to the box.

Personally when I teach a requirment I do EDGE (Explain, Demonstrate, Guide, Enable) but I make the scouts do it 3 times on their own before initialing

[WVBeaver05]

Personally when I teach a requirment I do EDGE (Explain, Demonstrate, Guide, Enable) but I make the scouts do it 3 times on their own before initialing

Remember - "nothing more, nothing less"

I assume you are talking about some specific things. You surely wouldn't do 3 times for, say, 1st Class swimming. But even for things like knots I would question requiring them to do it 3 times.

YiS

[pipestone1991]

We allow those who are 1st class sign off on 2nd class and lower,star on 1st and lower,life must be signed by an adult (as with star and eagle).

[scubascout]

Yes WVBeaver05, I mean knots and first aid, etc. I thought that was a given ,sorry

Thanks
Scubascout

[ASM-142]

So if the requirement says to tie a square knot you require the scout to tie this three (3) times. I would think that this is adding to the requirements.

[Mrw]

So if the requirement says to tie a square knot you require the scout to tie this three (3) times. I would think that this is adding to the requirements.

I would see this as rather confirming he had learned it. If he ties the knot just once and gets it signed off, you may find the next week that he has not got a clue and had just gotten lucky the one time.

[evmori]

So if the requirement says to tie a square knot you require the scout to tie this three (3) times. I would think that this is adding to the requirements.

I would see this as rather confirming he had learned it. If he ties the knot just once and gets it signed off, you may find the next week that he has not got a clue and had just gotten lucky the one time.

I gotta agree with MRW. Nothing wrong with making sure the Scout has learned what he was taught.

When I was a SM, the SPL & ASPL were allowed to sign-off on rank requirements for Tenderfoot to 1st Class. The three of us sat down & discussed what my expectations were & I told them if they have signed off on a requirement & the Scout doesn't know it, I was coming back to them not the Scout. I also advised them that I would be there to answer any questions or help in any way they needed.

[scubascout]

yes, i made them do it three times just to make sure they know it

[ASM-142]

I have no problem with a scout practicing a requirement multiple times. However, if a scout goes to someone that is authorized to sign-off on the requirement and that person tells him that it needs to be done three times then that is adding to the requirement.

As far as learning the skill a scout can know it one minute and forget it the next. The troop program should continiously re-enforce scout skills on a regular basis so next week or next year the skill is not lost.

However, IMHO once a knot is demonstrated once to someone that is authrized to sign-off on the requirement then it should be signed-off.

[cballman]

the easiest way for a scout to learn something is to show them. practice. then have them show someone for the signoff. practice. then have them teach the same thing to younger scouts. practice. then when you get older then you teach some more. practice. then they retain more of what we teach them.

[WeeWillie]

Demonstrate the skill.

Practice the skill with the Scout.

Allow the Scout time to practice on his own. You might tell him to PRACTICE until he can do it 3 times by himself.

When the Scout decides that he is ready, have him demonstrate the skill for score one time. (Ask him "Are you ready to tie the bowline.") Sign off if he performed the skill, repeat the cycle as many times as needed until he completes the skill. It may take several meetings / days / events.

Methods of retaining the skill include:
Take the time to teach the skill right the first time.
Scout not adult instructors.
Make them perform the task throughout the year.