Dad and son sleeping in same tent on campouts

[cballman]

I stand corrected after having gone through the G2SS I was wrong about the two year difference in scouts sleeping in the same tent. it does not specifially say an age except in that no adult can tent with a child other than his own. but I will still stand by the facts that I have been taught and have tried to make scouting a better place and that it has worked for our troop for a number of years. keep the patrols together grouped by age then you should not have any questions as to what might might go on.

[OldGreyBear]

I am not sure how we can expect the youth to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law when the instution that is supposed to be instillling these values can't follow its own rules.

Unregistred parents not being allowed to camp out with their sons at Council Camps? Where? Which Councils? I have phone calls to make!

[MisterChris]

I am not sure how we can expect the youth to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law when the instution that is supposed to be instillling these values can't follow its own rules.

Unregistred parents not being allowed to camp out with their sons at Council Camps? Where? Which Councils? I have phone calls to make!

LOOK. The Troop's NUMBER ONE PRIORITY is the safety of the boys. Far as I know, our troop has no set rule that parents must be registered as adult leaders or Committee members to come along (in fact I'm sure it's not because we've had many adults come along on canoe trips who weren't registered).

BUT. Certainly, now that I've read this thread I can see it as a good idea from an issue already raised. UNLESS you do a CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK on every parent who might wish to come along, You and your troop will probably be SUED if a parent goes along and gets some of these boys alone in the woods. (You might be sued anyway).

There are many other discipline issues that are raised when a parent who hasn't been trained and screened comes along. We've had a few parents who were actually discipline problems on trips - Wanting to lead the troop off somewhere for a good clean mudball fight (not in the agenda) or refusing to turn down the radio they brought that's against the 'rules' of the troop. Using foul language around the boys or bringing hidden alcohol along on a trip.

Troops have bylaws that may exceed the strictures of the BSA and I can see that as a good thing. If YOU don't like it find another troop. There are hundreds in your area, usually.

For instance, our troop does NOT allow Gameboys and other handheld gaming equipment, cellphones, booze, or weapons (other than pocket knives, bow saws, and axes). Some of that list is BSA policy, I'll let you read up on which.

If a parent tells our SM that he has a license to carry a gun and has every right and intent to bring one on a campout, he'll first get the 'are you CRAZY!?' look, and then be politely informed that he has every right to leave his gun and self at home.

In the troop I grew up in (back 30 years ago) we had leaders and older scouts bringing booze and weapons on camping trips. (I'm not in that troop anymore, it's disbanded). Our scoutmaster was ousted at one point through a political struggle, partly due to the existence of alcohol in the camp. A really good SM took over just as I was getting my Eagle (and subsequently moving on to other interests). That SM was ousted due to allegations of abuse with the boys.

If the SM was capable then so are the parents. And having an adult along on a campout who hasn't read the G2SS or who couldn't care less is a tough situation to control.

[vpalango]

I am not sure how we can expect the youth to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law when the instution that is supposed to be instillling these values can't follow its own rules.

Unregistred parents not being allowed to camp out with their sons at Council Camps? Where? Which Councils? I have phone calls to make!

GreyBear - Sorry to step on your toes on this one...

However, while I agree with the spirit of your statement, it doesn't account for the practicalities of the legal system. In our state, it is now required that all adults working with youth organizations be CORI (state background) checked. In practice, becuase of how the law is written, they either need to make sure every adult is registered (which ensures a CORI check), or they must keep a file of CORI information on adults utilizing thier facility. It's not the fault of the camps, and I don't think they really want to operate that way. It's a reaction to the laws written in our state. (Also, I'm making some assumptions here, based on what I've observed. Please, no one take the reasoning on this statement as absolute gospel, it's simply my personal analysis of the situation, I've had to put myself through about 6 different CORI checks since the law was enacted with each youth organization I work with.)

In our troop, for instance, we ask all adults who come camping to fill out a leadership application, and get CORI checked for our own protection. This is a rule that our troop committee has put on the troop, with the blessing of our COR. We haven't had any objections from parents to date, and encourage parents to come camping with us whenever they want. The only thing we work toward is keeping the ratio of adults-boys correct so that it is a Boy Scout camping experience, not a father-mother-son camping experience.

Unfortunately, I view this one as a reality of the times we are living in.

[OldGreyBear]

OK, so I gather, in those troops, absolutely all adults who go on trips are trained, with no exceptions and the BSA rule that all BSA activities are open to all parents is suspended because its in the best interest of the boys, got it and good night

[DadScout]

I'd have to echo vpalango's meaning here. I don't know if it's a law here in NY but it is a rule for our CO. Any adult who has anything to do with a youth must undergo a backround check. Every adult in our troop must comply or they can't interact. This goes for the pack also. Our biggest example is we carpool to/from weekend camping. If you don't have the forms filled out you can't drive another youth. That means since you're not part of the pool you drive your child every time.
Our troop has the rule that any adult camping with the troop must be outdoor leader trained. The rule has Committee and SM backing. I knew that technically no one could exclude me per BSA. However I saw the logic behind reasoning and I complied without argument. They just wanted all the adults playing from the same book and knowing the same rules.

Regarding sleeping with your son. Only once, at summer camp, did the subject ever come up. My son had to bunk two nights alone when his bunk mate had to go home. A brazen bunch of racoons had been asaulting the campsite, right into the tents, every night and I knew my son was a bit nervous. I offered that he could bunk with me but he said he take the racoons over my snoring any night.

[FrankJ]

I have never have had a problem with parents on a camp out. It is a good oppurtunity to get to know the parents & teach them about the program. One, we had never have had an overwelming number. Two, we have made sure they realize they camp seperately from the scouts & must allow the troop to function. Three, our troop seems to function better on outings than in troop meetings so it it nice to let the parents see the program working. Reading the other posts I see that mileage definitely varies.

Also youth protection rules apply to unregistered parents as well (no one on one contact, no guns, no alcohol, etc)

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Unregistred parents not being allowed to camp out with their sons at Council Camps? Where? Which Councils? I have phone calls to make!

Otetiana Council - Massawepie is a camp that will not allow any troop to have an overnight adult not registered with the troop.

Also, any troop sponsered by a catholic church has another reguired registration and class before any adult can participate on campouts of any kind. Catholic Churchs require a copy of Drivers License and run a back ground check.

[Trailblazer]

The way we do it... If we have adults go camping with us, we don't really care if they are registered or not. For the simple fact, if those 2 - 3 adults don't go camping with us, the troop does not go camping.

We are a small troop, and for atleast 6 years, getting adults to camp with us is like puling teeth. For atleast 5 years, if myself or the previous Scoutmaster couldn't make a camp out, we had to cancel it. Because of lack of help.

As far as scouts tenting with their parent, we are fine with that as long as it doesn't leave one scout alone.

But, adults can only tent with their son. (or grandson, nephew, etc) or other adults.

When we're in cabins, we do what we can to separate the adults and boys. Most cabins(shelters) we camp in have the portable dividers in them, so we section off a corner for the adults, and cram all of us in there.

There's one cabin we have camped in, with a sleeping area up stairs and a common area down below... for that, we had the scouts sleep down stairs in the common area, and the adults had the upstairs all to them selves. (even though there was plenty of room up stairs for all of us). There are sleeping pads downstairs for all the scouts, and none of the scouts seemed to mind.

My son is just about the age to start cub scouts, if he joins the troop, on camp outs, I will push for him to tent with another scout.

Because scouts should tent with other scouts when at all possible. They are a troop, which we explain to our scouts that the troop is a team. You work together.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Well I don't really consider myself an old schooler but I'm completely with Wagion on this one. Not registered with the troop? Not camping with the troop! Period. It's one piece of paper to fill out and it's done.

And as for the comment that some unregistered adults are far more qualified than some registered but don't have time to commit to scouting - hogwash! It doesn't have to take much time and one can register as a committee member and just do BOR's which don't take much time at all.
Oh wait, maybe your speaking of the people that think BSA stands for Babysitters of America. Ya know, the ones that drop off their kids at the front door but no one ever sees the adult. Yup bet they have a lot of knowledge to offer.

[vpalango]

OK, so I gather, in those troops, absolutely all adults who go on trips are trained, with no exceptions and the BSA rule that all BSA activities are open to all parents is suspended because its in the best interest of the boys, got it and good night

Sorry about the very much delayed reply!

No, not all adults are trained (though we do encourage that), and we do bring in Youth Protection Training for all parents, and STRONGLY encourage anyone who wants to come camping to attend.

As far as training requirement goes, we require that all SM/ASM be fully trained (within a reasonable period, working with the limited local training schedule). The CC and Advancement Chair are also trained, and we encourage all "active" adult leaders to at least take fast-start online.

In terms of all BSA activities being open to all parents, they still are! We just require that they fill out a registration, and go through a CORI check before they go overnight camping with us. They are ALL welcome, there are just local (legal) rules we need to deal with. (I didn't make the rules, nor did our local council... we can thank the times, and the legislature for the situation)

YIS,

[mhjacobson]

Yep! The old difference between what is written and the actuality of what is practice. Currently, in many BSA camps, only adults who are registered in the program, and allegedly have YPT are allowed to camp, and in MOST state parks this is required.

The only way that your unit can be sure that one of its parents is not a registered sex offender (or an unregistered sex offender) is for the adult to complete an adult registration. Having an adult registration for every adult who is on the campout protects both the troop and the adult (are you paying the few $$ to cover the adults under the BSA insurance?).

It is a small matter to obtain an application and to obtain the registration fee if the adult really wants to go along. We had a situation, this year, where one of our adult leaders was injured. Council certainly did help -- got the application on a Monday, and the adult was cleared to go to camp on Saturday!