Are Sheath Knifes okay to use?

[kwildman]

I too have carving tools and cooking and fillet knives that I use that are fixed blade knives. But to me these tools are not the same as the Sheath Knives some take to camp.

Yes, it is fun to watch Bear Gryllis (Man vs. Wild) eat a raw trout or pound on his sheath knife with a log to fell trees. It was just as fun to watch Johnny Rambo swing his sheath knife. Both are greaat entertainment.

But I still ask the question, why does a Boy Scout need a Sheath Knife at summer camp?

- Craig

The knifes I am talking about bare no resemblance to what Bear Gryllis or John Rambo use. Those knifes are not very practical as they are not light and very awkward and would likely fall within the definition of "innappropriate" provided in the GSS.

At summer camp a scout really doesnt need any form of knife unless he is taking wilderness survival, pioneering, or wood carving. The knife I am talking about is perfectly suited for these MBs. Yes knives are tools - but I wouldnt expect to see any scouts wandering around summer camp with a camp axe, sledge hammer, or shovel either unless there was a specific need for them.

Outside of Summer camp, I would absolutely recommend one these knives for any scout going camping/hiking/backpacking, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mora_knife

Here is another good review.

http://www.karamat.com/articlefs.html

Hope this helps.

[FrankJ]

But I still ask the question, why does a Boy Scout need a Sheath Knife at summer camp?

I think the general consensus is, no, you do not need to carry a sheaf knife at summer camp. The reason is not their size, but because it is not a good idea to have it strapped to your hip were you will eventually fall on it.

If I was doing a real wilderness trek, not something like Philmont, a weekend back packing trip or the AT, I would probably have one or something similar in my kit, but not strapped to my hip.

[OldGreyBear]

the answer to the question "Are sheath knifes okay to use' well, actually "Are Sheath Knives OK to use" is complex.

The Guide to SAfe Scouting does not prohibit them, although it does discourage their use, the term sheath knife is used once in the G2SS, and its says "Avoid large sheath knives" so one could say that a small sheath knife is completely acceptable. Now we have to determine what the definition is of a large and small sheath knife.

Then again, state parks, Scout camps, private campgrounds all have rules that must be adhered to. As far as the need for a large, or even small sheath knife I have lost track of the number of deer I watched my father field dress with his 3.5 inch folding pocket knife. It was kept razor sharp and always did what was asked of it, down to splitting the symphysis of the pelvis, after all, its just cartilage.

To get back to the question at hand, Sheath Knives are not prohibited by the BSA, but sheath knives may be prohibited in certain venues. When performing any task, selection of the proper tools is always fundamental to an expedient and good job.

[mhjacobson]

I work in the State of Illinois Building (yep, I am one of the pesky state legal eagles) so I walked over to two departments to ask the question: what about Boy Scout Leaders carrying sheath knives.

The Illinois Department of Conservation stated (emphatically) NOT ON ANY STATE OR COUNTY, CAMPGROUND THEY ARE PROHIBITED.

The Illinois State Police (not nice guys) said IF THEY WANT TO GET ARRESTED FOR CARRYING A WEAPON, THEY CAN CARRY A SHEATH KNIFE AS IT DOES NOT HAVE A VALID USE OTHER THAN AS A WEAPON. When I attempted to cross, citing the use of a sheath knift in dressing an animal by a hunter, the police said DRESSING AN ANIMAL IS PROPERLY EXECUTED THROUGH THE USE OF A KNIFE DESIGNED FOR THAT PURPOSE, AND SHEATH KNIVES ARE NOT DRESSING KNIVES. The Lieutenant then went on to say that the rules that they are following are similar to the rules in the surrounding states.

[FrankJ]

The Illinois State Police (not nice guys) said IF THEY WANT TO GET ARRESTED FOR CARRYING A WEAPON, THEY CAN CARRY A SHEATH KNIFE AS IT DOES NOT HAVE A VALID USE OTHER THAN AS A WEAPON.

I know you are only the messenger, but what a bunch of junk. If I choose to keep my steak knife in a sheaf rather than loose in a box it is suddenly a weapon? What about my vegetable knife which is actually quite a bit larger than my steak knife. Admittedly I am not inclined to put either in my belt & carry it around, but they could be at the camp site.

[mhjacobson]

Frank -- there is a difference between a vegetable knife, a steak knift and sheath knife. Be searious rather than be a pain in the ---. Believe it or not, I tried to tell the lieutenant that the bread knife that is in my cooking gear is far larger than my sheath knife. I was told BUT YOU WOULD NOT BE WEARING YOUR BREAD KNIFE WHEN YOU ARE WALKING AROUND, WOULD YOU? I GOT THE MESSAGE.

[FrankJ]

I am really not trying to be a pain in the --, but all this zero tolerance stuff really irks me. Especially from the police who have guns & power of the state to back up their point of view.

Please to not take this as bashing (or you either for that matter) the police. They have a tough job & deserve our help & respect.

[LSR]

My pet peeve along these lines is the scout/er who brings a USMC K-Bar or AF survival knife (I've not seen a SAS Commando knife yet, but give it time....) It's an almost sure guarentee of unsafe behavior. Oddly enough, the same does not hold true of equally sized civilian knives such as Buck Knives.

[OldGreyBear]

So Sheath Knives are considered illlegal in Illinois? I go down to Maxwell Street and I wont find a ton of sheath knives laid out on a blanket somewhere?

I do down to Hardin county for the Hardin County Deer Festical and I won't see a sheath knife and if I do, the guy carrying it will be arested?

The question that precipitated this thread is are sheath knives ok to use. And the possible answers are many. The BSA by itself does not prohibit sheath knives, they would rather a person choose the best tool for the job. Campgrounds, Camps, etc may have their own rules which must be followed.

[mhjacobson]

They are not legal in Illinois, but they are prohibited in State and County Parks. They are prohibited on all Illinois BSA camps. Well that takes care of the majority of the campgrounds that are in Illinois, and I can not see the use of a sheath knife in Jellystone Park (ROTFL).

Seriously, I am one of those former military people who belive in being prepared for an emergency, and I have a sheath knife in my trunk at all times.

[OldGreyBear]

Well if they are not legal in Illinois it would certainly explain why they wouldnt be allowed in a State or County Park as well as the Scout Council Camps.

[mhjacobson]

Never said that they were illegal in Illinois, that was someone who responded to one of my posts. I said that they were illegal in State and County Parks and in the Boy Scout Camps in Illinois.

[OldGreyBear]

I was trying to be funny, you posted:

"They are not legal in Illinois, but they are prohibited in State and County Parks."

hence my comment, I wont do that again

[kwildman]

I would be interested in seeing the actual law that prohibits the use of sheath knives in Illinois state parks. According to the Illinois Department of Natural Resources web site for information on Illinois State Parks there is no mention of knifes or any kind in their posted rules for Hunting, Camping, or Hiking. Further, Title 17 of Illinois Adminstrative Code, Ch1, Section 110 which codifies the rules for "Public Use of State Parks and Other Properties of the Department of Natural Resources" includes the following:

Section 110.170 Weapons and Firearms - Display and Use
It shall be unlawful for any person, other than authorized peace officers, to display or use on Department-controlled lands, except as authorized by the Department on hunting (reference 17 Ill. Adm. Code 510, 530, 550, 570, 590, 650, 660, 670, 680, 690, 710, 715, 720, 730, and 740), field trials (reference 17 Ill. Adm. Code 910), target or special event areas, any gun including shotgun, rifle, pistol, revolver, air or BB gun, sling shot, bow and arrow, switchblade knife with spring loaded blade, throwing knife, tomahawk or throwing axe, or martial arts devices.


The above is very explicit about what items are prohibited in Illinois State Parks. BSA camps are free to set their own policy.

[mhjacobson]

Read 'very carefully' my prior posts. My information came from a Lt from the Illinois State Police. I can not cite the regulation as this came directly from him. About the comment about the scout camps, that came from the Scout Executive who told me that none of the camps in Illinois allow sheath knives. This does not come from state law, but from the councils who own the camp. BTW, our two camps are located in WI, and the council does not allow sheath knives.

[ThunderingWind]

I am one of those "military" guys mentioned in an earlier post.

I do carry a pilots survival knife attached to the shoulder strap of my ruck. I also carry it on my regular backpack on Scouting outings.
I do not take it to a BSA property.

The Army trained me how to properly use it for many uses. I have dug a fox hole with it, made tent stakes with it, hammered said stake
into the ground with it, cut the bad guys wire with it, cleaned my fingernails with it, and many other things.

I have been questioned on Scouting outings about it. I tell the person it is not expressly ruled out and that I do know how to properly
use it.

It has saved my hind quarters in the woods (Army woods and Scouting outing woods). I will continue to carry it and use it until such time as
as a BSA rule, policy or regualtion expressly forbids it.

My walking stick has a slot in the top to take my meal kit knife and be made into a food gathering spear. I also have the option of a more traditional
three pronged Nepture fork or the three pronged TeePee fork for food gathering. My meal kit knife even has a "gutting hook" ground in.

[mhjacobson]

On your pack not on your person. The devil is in the details. When it is on your pack, it may be considered as carrying survival gear. I sometimes use a pocket on the side of my backpack for mine (when I am not on scouting activities). I called my police LT friend and he said that Illinois considers sheath knives as hunting tools, not to be used when not hunting. Carrying the knife out of sight solve the problem as long as it stays out of sight. Emergencies trump regulations most of the time.

I am tired of this thread and will no longer follow it.