YP Training On-line

[ThunderingWind]

A question came up in the current Venturing Specific YP training on-line that I am not sure how to properly apply.

The scenario is that Leaders are discussing up coming trip. Leader A asks about Leader B picking Youth C on the way to rally point.

Training states this is not allowed. While not expressly stated, the training implies that all Crew events start with travel from the Leaders home or Youth home.

Training does not give clear guidance or an "unless this is your child" statement. Thus using implied start time as stated above, a parent-leader can no longer take his or her child to any event or meeting if they are to be alone in the vehicle.

I KNOW THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED BEFORE SO NO NEED FOR EXTENDED POSTS. I am merely pointing out that the training is leaving the "if your are a parent and a leader" situation out. It needs to be discussed in the training.

[FrankJ]

This probably was not covered in the training because it is a common sense issue. Only the most rigid would argue although you can sleep alone with your child in a tent, you cannot be in the same car alone,

The real question you should be asking is what happens when the Crew adviser is married to one of the crew? Can they be alone in a car together?

[wagionvigil]

Just take me out and Shoot me Now!

[ThunderingWind]

This probably was not covered in the training because it is a common sense issue. Only the most rigid would argue although you can sleep alone with your child in a tent, you cannot be in the same car alone,

The real question you should be asking is what happens when the Crew adviser is married to one of the crew? Can they be alone in a car together?

You are correct, only the most rigid would hold this line. I am merely pointing out that the training leaves an ambigous void that can be legally interpreted both ways.
I am asking that this "common sense issue" be codified or clarified in YP training. This training package is inferring that the event/meeting starts at travel time. The training package goes on to say that you can not be alone with a crew youth - including this travel time. The training even goes so far as to mention "even if the youth lives on the way." Quote is a paraphase.

The YP training needs to delve further into the situations where you have only two leaders (proper gender mix), two vehicles with 8 seats each and 12 Crew to transport.

Now as to your married question, I feel that it is already covered in that an adult advisor can not be in any relationship with a youth member. If they met and were married before coming to the Venturing Program, the rules still state one of them is out of the program. If they met and married while both under 21, the rules still apply once someone turns 21.

I know some of this sounds silly. But I come from a very legalistic background and was raised to believe that any thing I do correctly, legally and by the rules can and will still be used against me in a court of law - someday.

[kwildman]

I am sorry but I really wonder about these people ...they either have no common sense or just have no idea of what scouting is and should be about. Either way anyone that is so rigid on YP that they want to over ride a parental rights should not be a leader.

[ThunderingWind]

I am sorry but I really wonder about these people ...they either have no common sense or just have no idea of what scouting is and should be about. Either way anyone that is so rigid on YP that they want to over ride a parental rights should not be a leader.

Not all of it is the leaders. Some of it is coming from the liability insurance companies of the Chartering Organization. Several large national church organizations have put forth some really restrictive YP rules that they can legally enforce above and beyond those of the BSA if the unit is to be chartered by that local church. And some of it is from the staff lawyers of these organizations.

Again, I just found this abmiguity in the on-line YP training for Crew Advisors that implies the meeting and events start at the moment travel begins from the Advisor's or the Youth's home. This abiguity leaves room for interpretation that needs to be clarified.

[kwildman]

Not all of it is the leaders. Some of it is coming from the liability insurance companies of the Chartering Organization. Several large national church organizations have put forth some really restrictive YP rules that they can legally enforce above and beyond those of the BSA if the unit is to be chartered by that local church. And some of it is from the staff lawyers of these organizations.

Again, I just found this abmiguity in the on-line YP training for Crew Advisors that implies the meeting and events start at the moment tavel begins from the Advisor's or the Youth's home. The is abiguity leaves room for interpretation that needs to be clarified.

Obviously if an organizations rules are more restrictive they must be followed. I still would have a probelem w/ any organization that would require YP for a parent and their own child.

[DanMaker]

This thread has been quite quite a while, but it's on a topic I've been trying to get answers to for a few months now. The venturing YP stated that if two ventures are dating and one turns 21, they must quit dating, if they both stay in the unit. What about marriage? Do they need to divorce?!?!? Or does one have to leave the unit?!? The first seems absloutly crazy. And the second isn't much better. But I haven't heard any official answer. Is there one?

Thanks

[FrankJ]

Officially there are no exceptions. So if the couple is married & one is a youth & the other is an adult, both cannot be active in Venturing. This actually happened to a couple I know. I am not sure if they were married at the time though. But did you know when a youth turns 21 he is allowed to finish the charter year as an youth? I imagine is the way it is for simplicity. Like one of the other Gs I would use some rationality in applying the policy.

This is one the places you need to recognize the difference between youth protection laws and BSA policies.

[DanMaker]

But did you know when a youth turns 21 he is allowed to finish the charter year as an youth? I imagine is the way it is for simplicity. Like one of the other Gs I would use some rationality in applying the policy.

This is one the places you need to recognize the difference between youth protection laws and BSA policies.

I did not know about finishing the charter year (what is a charter year?) But that should help decrease the number of problem cases.

Rationality... so rare when lawyers and nitpickers get involved.

I've heard that the most active Venturing crew in our area makes them both leaders in cases like this. I haven't confirmed that.

[FrankJ]

Charter year is when your unit actual recharters. It is on your BSA membership card.

Lawyers are not going to get involved in a 22 year old dating a 18 year old. 22 year old dating a 14 year old--you got a problem. I have a reputation for harassing nitpickers so they don't bother me much.

BSA YP policies seem to be geared for adult verses youth. Policy involving young adult (18-20) verses slightly older adult (22-24) are not well thought out. Probably doesn't come up much except with college age Venturing crews.

[DanMaker]

Charter year is when your unit actual recharters. It is on your BSA membership card.

Lawyers are not going to get involved in a 22 year old dating a 18 year old. 22 year old dating a 14 year old--you got a problem. I have a reputation for harassing nitpickers so they don't bother me much.

BSA YP policies seem to be geared for adult verses youth. Policy involving young adult (18-20) verses slightly older adult (22-24) are not well thought out. Probably doesn't come up much except with college age Venturing crews.

I think you've nailed it there. Thanks!