Suggestions on working with the local Troop

[robclarkcsm]

Within the last year I had taken over a failing Pack. I have tried numerous times to work with the local troop which my Pack feeds. I had attended thier leader meetings, planned a majority of the Cenntenial Rededication Ceremony, started the planning on the Scout Sunday and invited the Troop on a Pack outing (which the Troop did attend.) The leaders of this Troop are friendly however, they want to do absolutely no work towards anything. In the short time working with them it has been apparent that they are willing to do anything but they do not want to help in any of the planning or communicating. The big kicker was at the Blue and Gold dinner. I was told to my face by the SM, and two of the ASM's that they would be in attendance towards the end of the B&G to recieve the Scouts that were bridging over. They never showed and did not even have the decentcy of calling to say they were unable to attend. I let it go and went to the next Troop meeting to turn over the individual account balance for the scouts who bridged over. I asked about what happened and the response was "did not feel like going." The realization is that there needs to be a path of communicating seeing how the WEBELOS II have certain tasks they need to do with the Troop to recieve the Arrow of Light. My questions are 1. Do I need to bridge the WEBELOS II into the local Troop? 2. If so, what are some suggestions on how to deal with this type of Leadership? I want the best possible experience for all the Scouts in the Pack and I'm having reservations on dealing with the local Troop.

[Quailman]

Welcome, robclarkcsm!

You didn't enter your location (home council) when you registered, but I'll give my perspective. I live in an area (north of Houston) with multiple troops - so many that our district was subdivided into three last summer.

During the fall you should be taking the boys around to visit various troops. Parents should attend also. The boys and parents can see how the meetings are run, and how the boys in the troop respond to visitors. They can get an idea of the activities they do, where and how often they camp, etc. You should in no way feel an obligation to have your boys cross over to a troop you are not comfortable with. Even if you share a unit number, the boys should be free to select a troop they want to be part of. They are more likely to stick around with the troop if several cross over to one together.

My Web2 den visited quite a few troops in the fall (my son is 17 yr, 8mo, so it's been a while). It makes the meeting planning a little easier for the den leader. I was also told not to let the troop know we were coming, either, so we didn't get the type of dog and pony show that my current troop puts on. Call to make sure they're meeting each of the next 3 Mondays (Wednesdays, whenever), and show up at one.

One other thing - I couldn't help but notice that you mentioned "individual account balances". The prevailing practice around here is for cub scout fundraising to help the pack, as the cubs don't have so many individual costs - grub fees, camping fees, etc. I don't want to derail this thread, but I wonder how common this is.

[WeeWillie]

Welcome and thank you for being a concerned adult leader.

Your WB-IIs are free to join any troop and your WB-II DL is not obligated to steer them to any particular troop. The old AOL requirement was to visit 3 troops and I encourage you to do so just to see what is available in your community.

Is your "local troop" struggling too! There are a lot of troops, including mine, that are struggling. If that is the case, it might explain their not getting involved in planning joint events. The SM and ASM(s) (and their spouses) may be overtaxed just keeping their units afloat. Perhaps some new blood might energize the troop. The questions is, are your parents willing to step up to the plate and be the new blood? It is a tough call!

A portion of our fundraising goes to the Troop Account and a portion goes to the Scout Account. The Scout Account pays for camp, dues, fees... and is transferable. It is an incentive to sell more popcorn....

[Quailman]

WeeWillie is wise. Your infusion of fresh adult leadership could be just what the unit commissioner ordered. Still, it pays to visit other troops to see how meetings are run. Also, see where they've gone for summer camp the last several years. Some troops always go the same places because they're familiar or one controlling leader doesn't want to take on the added challenge of fundraising and planning for an out-of-state trip (my troop).

A portion of our fundraising goes to the Troop Account and a portion goes to the Scout Account. The Scout Account pays for camp, dues, fees... and is transferable. It is an incentive to sell more popcorn....

All troops do that (in my area anyway). I don't know of any packs that do it, though.

[smtroop168]

Within the last year I had taken over a failing Pack. I have tried numerous times to work with the local troop which my Pack feeds. I had attended thier leader meetings, planned a majority of the Cenntenial Rededication Ceremony, started the planning on the Scout Sunday and invited the Troop on a Pack outing (which the Troop did attend.) The leaders of this Troop are friendly however, they want to do absolutely no work towards anything. In the short time working with them it has been apparent that they are willing to do anything but they do not want to help in any of the planning or communicating. The big kicker was at the Blue and Gold dinner. I was told to my face by the SM, and two of the ASM's that they would be in attendance towards the end of the B&G to recieve the Scouts that were bridging over. They never showed and did not even have the decentcy of calling to say they were unable to attend. I let it go and went to the next Troop meeting to turn over the individual account balance for the scouts who bridged over. I asked about what happened and the response was "did not feel like going." The realization is that there needs to be a path of communicating seeing how the WEBELOS II have certain tasks they need to do with the Troop to recieve the Arrow of Light. My questions are 1. Do I need to bridge the WEBELOS II into the local Troop? 2. If so, what are some suggestions on how to deal with this type of Leadership? I want the best possible experience for all the Scouts in the Pack and I'm having reservations on dealing with the local Troop.

Welcome to the Forum.

A few comments...congrats to you for taking over a failing Pack. It's a huge challenge for sure.

The SM and ASMs that blew off the B&G were pretty rude and missed the Scout is Courteous part

Are you aware of any problems within the troop? How big is it? Many Packs are "feeder" units to their troops. Do they rely on the Pack to get new troop members? Do some of the Cubs have brothers in the troop now? Has there been any discussion with the COR wrt the troop?

Has the troop been "burned" by the previous pack leadership? Was th fact the Pack was failing influence the troop leadership's interest in getting involved? The past Web 2 leaders been engaged the troop? Did they commit to a troop event and blow it off?

I know...lots of questions but to answer yours:

1. NO the Web 2 do not have to join the troop and can/should visit others. Sometimes its a question of the day of the week the troop meets that conflicts with some other activity the boy is involved in. My opinion is that any troop is better than no troop, so if they go to another troop and stay in scouting...that's great although not necessarily good for the long term health of the troop.

2. To strengthen the leadership ties, I would establish a Pack/Troop Liaison Position on your committee and ask the troop to do the same. Keeps both sides of the equation informed of each others schedule.

Hope this helps.

PS...all the $ earned by the scout for popcorn sales goes to the scout in our troop. we do not take a cut.

[robclarkcsm]

Are you aware of any problems within the troop? How big is it? Many Packs are "feeder" units to their troops. Do they rely on the Pack to get new troop members? Do some of the Cubs have brothers in the troop now? Has there been any discussion with the COR wrt the troop?

Has the troop been "burned" by the previous pack leadership? Was th fact the Pack was failing influence the troop leadership's interest in getting involved? The past Web 2 leaders been engaged the troop? Did they commit to a troop event and blow it off?

First thank you all for your suggestions and information. Here are your answers smtroop 168.

No problems other than Leadership strugles. I give them credit, they keep it away from the Scouts

There are around 25 Scouts in the Troop

We are the only "feeder" Pack for this Troop. It's a small town.

Yes, they rely on the Pack for new members and the impression I recieved is that they feel it is thier right to recieve the Scouts who bridge over. That's why I asked about bridging the WEBELOS II to other Troops.

Yes, there are families who have scouts in the Pack and Troop.

Yes, I have spoken with the Council Representative (he was there for the B&G) and our DE. Both state they hope the SM's boy eagles out and the SM resigns soon. Other than that there was no advice.

No, most of the Troops Leadership has come from the Pack.

No, some of the Leaders encouraged a change because the Pack was heading south fast and the turn around was very quick considering the state it was in.

Yes, the previous WEBELOS II Leaders are now on the Troops Committee and had the WEBELOS very involved with the Troop.

To my knowledge no events were blown off. It seems these Leaders are close to thier sons Eagling and they are getting lazy. They love the accolades but expect everyone else to do the work.

[Quailman]

My son is close to Eagle and aging out, and I am looking forward to involvement that in scouts that isn't clouded by always thinking "how does this affect my son?"

It sounds like the pack's former problems may have originated when the current troop's leaders were still with the pack. If it's a small town and there aren't many options, then you and other leaders who cross over with the boys will probably bring about the needed change.

Just remember, cubs are free to cross over to the troop of their choosing. I've never liked the term "feeder pack". It sounds like a relationship that's bound to be taken for granted.

[Nuts4Scouts]

Unfortunately, some Troops get that way. They think that boys will/should just automatically go to their Troop so why should they do any work.

I take it you are the Cubmaster? If it was me, when I visited the Troop and was told they simply "did not feel" like showing up, I am afraid I might have read them the riot act. I would have stated that if that was the kind of un-Scout like example they were setting for the Scouts in their Troop, that I would "not feel like" giving their Troop an unconditional endorsement to future Webelos dens.

Talk to your Webelos den leaders and encourage them to visit, and camp with, as many different Troops as possible. If your Webelos are attending your upcoming Council Webelosree I would recommend your Webelos den leaders (and parents) talking to as many of the Boy Scouts, and their leaders, who are there as they can. That is a great opportunity to get to know them, and see how they operate.

Boy, do I hate that "divine right" attitude!

[Cowboy]

The boys go where they feel comfortable. Yes, usually they end up going to the Troop with the same Unit #, but not always. We currently have a boy who (mom) drives past 4 other Troops to get to ours. Why? They have visited the others and liked ours best.

Regarding Scout funds: Tiger through W1 the popcorn sales go to the Pack. W2 gets to keep some if not all of the money they earn. That is how we do it and here is why:
1) Popcorn sales in October/November. The boys cross over in February;
2) They sell the popcorn to pay for thier stuff, this is not communism;
3) They cross over and have to buy: Neckercheif, slide, book, etc.
4) They have to pay for summer camp. If a parent brings their boy into the Troop "cold" it costs them about $200 not counting the camping (we go every month) the Summer camp, and any costs associated with earning MB's.

[smtroop168]

Doesn't sound like a disasterous situation. they don't appear to be violating any BSA policies like Cowboy's folks (see Forum thread on Help with Eagle Process"

A couple of things....small town so how many other options are there?

Brothers will follow brothers....I only know one family that has their 2 sons in separate troops and its a nightmare for the parents.

Their "right" to get the Cubs? That's a hoot!

I was asking about the unit COR, not the DE or other council reps. Most DEs want to stay clear of unit internal politics until it becomes a possibility they will lose a unit.

If the former Web 2 leaders are on the troop committee, maybe one of them can be the Pack/Troop Liaison.

Keep working on it....remember its all for the boys so if that focus is lost, its time to take stronger action.

[WeeWillie]

I don't know enough about the situation to criticize the SM. Nor am I criticizing you! I have been unfairly criticized so I am sensitive to criticize another leader. That said.

If the SM is getting ready to leave when his son becomes Eagle, then someone should be planning for his replacement. Now would be a good time for some pack parents to take Scout leader training.

When he does leave, give him a good send off. For all he faults, he probably did a reasonable job. Friendly, courteous, kind apply.