webloes camping out w/the scout troop

[papabear]

I would like some clarification please.
Our Pack is about to go on a weekend campout. One of the new Scouts to our Pack is a Webleos and wants to attend the campout but his parents cannot attend. Can this Webelos Scout camp with the Pack? Who can or cannot be his supervising guardian? When GTSS mentions guradian, is it in reference to a legal guardian or just someone the parent has given permission to? This is a new Scout to our Pack with no experience or history with the Pack and the Pack has no history or experience with the new Scout.

[wagionvigil]

A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of an adult. Joint Webelos den-troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged... Den Leaders, pack leaders and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips." (Guide to Safe Scouting, page 21, 4th bullet). Page 22, under Pack Overnighters says "In most cases each youth memberwill be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responisble to a specific adult." I belive the common understand of that is that a Scout can camp with another adult (small G guardian) who is directly responsible. I can't find the reference right now, but I my understanding is that an adult can be responsible for only one boy other that his/her own children and that the leader of the group cannot take responsibility for any addition youth.
One webelos one adult Plus a webelos can only sleep in a tent with an "adult" that is a parent.

[Nuts4Scouts]

If the family knows any of the other Pack families, they can ask one of them to be responsible for their son for the trip.

[fritz1255]

I'm not sure what the rules say about this, but common sense dictates that there should be plenty of adults present at any campout involving Cub Scouts, and that each adult be responsible for keeping track of a set number of boys, probably no more than three. Cub Scouts have a very short attention span, tend to wander off the minute an adult turns his/her back, and have to be served meals and cleaned up after. Any adult leader who is asked to take sole responsibility for several Cub Scouts for a weekend camping trip should JUST SAY NO!

As an aside, our Boy Scout troop went camping at our local Scout Camp this past weekend, and there were several Cub packs staying in the various cabins. I offered my fellow adult leaders in our troop $100 apiece if they would stay in one of the Cub cabins, and got no takers.

[wagionvigil]

It is all stated in the Guide To Safe Scouting!

[fritz1255]

I don't know how this fits into the rules, but a colleaque of mine at work was presented with a dilemma some years back. He was a Cub Den leader, and his Den was scheduled to camp out at a District Camporee, I believe. As the event drew near, parents started to back out (their boys were still going), until it was going to be just him with ten Cub Scouts. The district, who tends to worry far more about getting kids involved than everyone having a safe, enjoyable experience, was apparently OK with this, and gave him vague promises of sending people over to help out during the event. Fortunately, he has more than an ounce of common sense, and canceled his Den's participation in the Camporee.

[wagionvigil]

Follow the BSA Rules DO not count on the council or district backing you up. YOU are the one that will be liable in the end if you do not follow the rules.

[Chief J]

Follow the BSA Rules DO not count on the council or district backing you up. YOU are the one that will be liable in the end if you do not follow the rules.

I completely agree - if you don't follow the rules you will be responsible and not "district, council, troop, crew, pack, national, etc." All of these wonderful groups who promise to support you and help out will disappear and help point the finger of blame in the direction of the leader who led the trip if something goes wrong.

Chief J

[WVBeaver05]

And...... (one of my pet peeves) .....

If we don't follow the rules, just what kind of example are we setting for the youth?

YiS

[fritz1255]

Then I assume, WVBeaver, that you never exceed the posted speed limit with your son in the car?

[WVBeaver05]

Then I assume, WVBeaver, that you never exceed the posted speed limit with your son in the car?

I don't think I could say NEVER, but I would go with very seldom. I doubt if I could even say NEVER when driving to/from a Scout function, but ALMOST NEVER.

So, I can say for sure that none of us is perfect.

YiS

[joat]

Ahh yes, the age-old argument: If you break one rule, then it's OK to break all rules.

[kwildman]

So lets wax philosophical - I will take moral relativism for $100 Alec.

[FrankJ]

So we are going to be philosophical

who made the rules?
Are the rules legitimate?
Are the rules morally just?
What if the rules are conflicting?
Do the people who made the rules have guns to make you follow them?

Not that the Guide to Safe Scouting is ever unclear or contradictory

Part of teaching youth to make ethical & moral choices means teaching that following the rules is more than blind obedience to written dogma. (But you should follow legitimate rules)

What this has to do with the original question, I do not know.

[robclarkcsm]

Ok WEBELOS camping with the Troop. A good WEBELOS Den Leader would not rely on the Troops Leadership for supervising his/ her Scouts. With that being said there would be atleast two seep leadership by the Pack. A great Den Leader would have atleast four deep Leadership (one gets hurt/ sick one takes to get treatment) this still leaves 2 adult leaderhip. now add your parents who can go and you should have a managable group. If you were at Residence camp with your boys it's a 4 to 1 ratio. Atleast 1 Baloo trained Leader. The WEBELOS will want to sleep in tents with their friends just like residence camp. Have your health and consent forms up to date and have a great time.

[FrankJ]

Just as a note. You do not need a Baloo trained leader to go Webelos den camping. You need a Baloo leader to go pack camping. There is an Outdoors leader skills for Webelos Leaders course. I am not sure if that is actually required. The syllabus is out of print though & the course is suppose to be rolled into the new ITOLS whenever the new syllabus for that comes out.

[robclarkcsm]

Just as a note. You do not need a Baloo trained leader to go Webelos den camping. You need a Baloo leader to go pack camping. There is an Outdoors leader skills for Webelos Leaders course. I am not sure if that is actually required. The syllabus is out of print though & the course is suppose to be rolled into the new ITOLS whenever the new syllabus for that comes out.

Our Ditrict rolls Baloo, Outdoor leader skills for WEBELOS, risk assesment and a few others into one weekend of training. I should have made that distinction in my post.

[kwildman]

better check your tour permit because Baloo is required.

[FrankJ]

My tour permit form says Baloo is required for Pack overnight camping. The Baloo requirement is in the pack overnighter section of GS2S. Webelos can camp outside of a pack activity. The other dens cannot. Webelos still need to follow the other restrictions about what scouts can do, but cubs cannot such as restrictions on water activities.

[kwildman]

Although national does not specifically require any outdoor training for webelos camping it may be required at the council level. With the push for training and risk management i believe that National will be addressing this.