Cub Scouts vs. Babysitting

[Bear354]

We have a bit of a problem with parents thinking Cubs is like a cheap Baby sitter.

We had a couple of kids show up ranging in ages from 1st to 3rd and all they wanted to do was eat at the snack machine. Now I know that usually there might be something else going on @ home and im glad they are in a safe place, but I hate the fact that some parents think this is cheap glorified baby sitting. It takes away from the experience with the other boys and parents because I am having to discipline the kids whose parents have chosen to literally dump them in the parking lot and peel off after we have tried to make contact with them on multiple occasions.

Is there an appropriate way to tell the parents that we are not the baby sitting service? I just dont think its appropriate for me to watch kids whose parents I have seldom met especially after 7pm on a school night.

[Quailman]

Isn't Cub Scouts for kids ranging in ages from 1st to 3rd grade? Are these registered cubs at a pack meeting, or siblings at a den meeting?

[Nuts4Scouts]

Are these siblings attending your den meetings with their brother? Are they Scouts who should be there attending their own den meetings? Is this being done for Pack meetings as well?

1st grade boys would be Tiger Cub Scouts. Tigers are required by BSA to have an Adult Partner with them at all times.

Wolf and Bear Cub Scouts (2nd and 3rd grades) are not required to have an adult with them. In fact, BSA recommends that parents of Wolf - Webelos Scouts only attend den meetings if they have a specific purpose to being there.

Pack meetings are the times when the entire family should be there, and participate.

Boys should never just be "dumped" off in a parking lot. That is not safe.

Have you talked to your Cubmaster about this problem?

If these boys are supposed to be attending their own den meetings, and instead are interfering with yours, you should talk to their den leaders for assistance in keeping the boys in their own areas. Your Cubmaster should talk to the Tiger parents and insist that they attend meetings with their Tigers

If these children are siblings that are simply dropped off at your den meetings without any permission to do so, I would put my foot down and not allow it. Since you are not able to contact the parents, I would confront them in person. Get your assistant den leader, and possibly an extra parent, to look after the Scouts in your den as they arrive. I would wait in the parking lot for the families to arrive and stop them as they pull up. Explain to the parents in the car that you do not have the capability to care for siblings at the den meetings. Let them know that the only way siblings can be there is if at least one of their parents are there with them. If you miss the parents at drop off, hold the Scout and his siblings inside the den meeting room after the meeting and wait for their parents to come inside to pick them up. You might have your assistant den leader keeping a watch for them in the parking lot and direct them inside.

[FrankJ]

If the siblings are dropped of in the parking lot & you have not agreed to care for them, it is neglect. Call child protective services. (or whatever they call it in your state. (YPT demands this)

Is there a way to tell parents that you are not baby sitting service? Face to face works best.

[tonkatim]

I usually have a program that involves all of the kids there. Yes it does make it dull for some of the older or more active Cubs. But all are invited. I would have a problem with late pickups or early drop offs. But if as it seems that the snack machine is a problem then cover it up and make believe that it is not there. Then make certain that a portion of your program is very active(as space and constraints allow) for those that need it. There are many resources for games and in taking training you will get many more ideas for an active age group.

Keep in mind that if you think that you are a baby sitter then you will be a baby sitter. If you think that you are a positive influence then that is what you will be.

One way that was mentioned at a Pow Wow class that I attended was to let them use magic markers for a craft and let em go. The ones without parents usually end up covered in markers. When the parents complain then make them aware that more supervision would be nice. I am not sure that worked but the guy that brought it up stated that it ended his drop off problem.

Either way there are resources out there and "keep it simple, make it fun"

[Bear354]

Well, we talked to the parents after they arrived last Thursday. The older brother is boy scout grade level and they came on the wrong night so we sent him home. They showed up on last thursday night with 3 other boys of CS grades with big brother boy scout in tow. Never had seen these new boys before. Regarding the snack machine, we dont normally meet in that room since we use it only for pack meeting so that issue can be addressed. We have the keys so we can turn that thing off.

So we meet the parents (or we think thats who they are) and they seem so blase about the program after we finally got a chance to tell them that they cant come (especially with the 1st grader) unless we meet with them and talk about what the program is. This from the confines of their car. They dont even want to get out and talk to me and the CM after we tried to explain to them what they did and how it goes against YPT. So we give them the applications for the program and I get some numbers to contact. I am not sure even if they will come back since we arent meeting till after thanksgiving break, but I am prepared to call parents or cops if they dont comply. I am a teacher and in Georgia we go to prison for that stuff if we dont report abuse/neglect. I just dont understand how a person with a child can willingly dump their kids in a dark parking lot. Its like our HS counselor said "Its fun to make the kid, but tough to raise them"

[AquilaNegra2]

If the siblings are dropped of in the parking lot & you have not agreed to care for them, it is neglect. Call child protective services. (or whatever they call it in your state. (YPT demands this)

Would you seriously do this? It's possible that you would be breaking up a family for what might be either a mistake in judgment or miscommunication. And, no, I don't read YPT as demanding this. Do it once and your troop/pack would quickly earn a reputation in the community that would probably kill it.

Educate the parents, and if they don't comply, phone them to pick the kid up. Make it clear that he's not able to be there without the parent, or use some of TonkaTim's excellent suggestions.

Don't make this a knee-jerk reaction that can have no good consequences for a family that is already apparently struggling with parenting. I really can't believe that any of you would even suggest getting law enforcement or CPS involved for something like this. Shame on you.

[tonkatim]

Given what we know...

registered Boy Scout with three Cub age unregistered boys showing up at Pack meetings.

Find out what Den Chief duties are and give Boy Scout very specific duties that follow those guidelines. Find out when Den Chief training is and figure out a way to get him there.

Get three applications filled out with as much information that you can fill out ahead of time. Stop the parents and have them sign and give you the rest of the information. Take the filled out applications to your District Executive. If you do not know who that is, shame on him. He/She has a fund to pay application fees out of for families in need and I am sure would appreciate the 3 member bump. This all works unless you have a Tiger and then you are going to have to find a "parent, relative or friend who is at least 18 years old" to stay. Much harder, but you get the point that with some work you can make it work. These are the boys that need you much more than you need them. Talk to you District Executive about the definition of "Friend" if you are not comfortable with this.

[Nuts4Scouts]

This all works unless you have a Tiger and then you are going to have to find a "parent, relative or friend who is at least 18 years old" to stay. Much harder, but you get the point that with some work you can make it work. These are the boys that need you much more than you need them. Talk to you District Executive about the definition of "Friend" if you are not comfortable with this.

I would not put a Tiger together with a stranger just to get him registered in your Pack. That is a very bad youth protection policy. Would you really go along with this young boy being alone, 1 on 1, with someone who is not only not a parent, but a complete stranger to him? I know I would not.

Per the BSA youth application, any Tiger Partner who does not reside at the same address as the Tiger Cub Scout, must fill out a BSA adult application and submit to a background check.

[FrankJ]

Asking would I call the child protective services for this kind of situation?

Would you seriously do this? It's possible that you would be breaking up a family for what might be either a mistake in judgment or miscommunication. And, no, I don't read YPT as demanding this. Do it once and your troop/pack would quickly earn a reputation in the community that would probably kill it.

I have not yet. What is being described would come close though. And yes if you think neglect (might) is present, you are required to report it. It is up to child protective services to investigate & decide the merits.

On a more serious suggestion. This does sound like a call to whomever handles these issues for your council is warranted. They have more training than a 20 minute video.

[tonkatim]

I never said put a Tiger alone 1 on 1 with a stranger. That is not just spelled out in the YPT training, it does not make sense to use that as an argument. I would find a way to help this boy. If he keeps showing up alone and his parents are not interested in why that is a bad idea. I would "Do my best." The boy needs all of the help that he can get.

[FrankJ]

One on one is not really the issue here. It is parents(?) dropping off kids not registered in the program without permission or discussion. Is this case neglect? No idea the point is you cannot figure it out over the internet. YP is more than two deep leadership & no one on one. Reporting possible abuse (neglect) is part of YPT. Investigating the abuse is not part of our job.


Now if you talk to the parents & see they are having hard time, choosing a scout is helpful, and a place in the program works too. Once again the council should resources to help with that as well.

[Bear354]

A quick update on the last incident.

So we dont see these kids for 2 months and then they magically re-appear last night with about 6 kids in tow (2 of which are girls). 1st grader by himself with some older friends or relatives (honestly I dont know because apparently the "spokesperson" i.e. big brother did all the talking) So we kept them there after they said they had been dropped off. I keep prodding and then learn they walked over here from about a distance of 5 miles in about 35-40 deg wind chill around 30. So lie number one has been told.

I get the kids to use my phone and text the parents saying please come up here now. And call and leave three messages. Still no answer and straight to voice mail. Den activities have wrapped up around 8 and they try to sneak out. I stop them and the teacher in me comes out. 8:15 rolls around and I have had enough. We call the police and the cops try to use the number on my phone and it doesnt work. Its a wrong number. (Lie number 2)

Lie number three: The "spokesperson" says hes 15 to the cop, but 16 to me. Major disrespect to the police officer and do not realize that walking the streets at night is a cold thing.

Finally we get a parent here. And hes really out of it. Probably didnt understand a word I and the CM said. I told the guy that as a teacher in Georgia, I could be thrown in jail if I let his kids walk home and it was discovered or God forbid one get injured or killed. I wasnt doing 7-10 for him.

I am not sure if they will be back, but I was honestly prepared to say if you cannot follow the rules then you dont need to come back.

Thank goodness for my awesome Bear Moms for having my back and good ol' teacher intuition.

[Nuts4Scouts]

Wow, what a shame.

So, it seems that it is NOT the "parents" that are dropping these kids off.

It is the kids desperately looking for some place to go to feel safe and comfortable.

Again, what a shame. I hope that child services in your area can give these kids the help they are shouting for.

[Bear354]

Well these kids and this "parent" is officially on my radar. I have seen these kids walking around the down town part of our town unattended so if they show up again without following the rules the police will be called again. We told the kids that we called the police not to get you in trouble, but to get parents to understand what they did is wrong and against the rules, but they were afraid of getting a "butt-whoopin" so they felt the urge to lie.

[Nuts4Scouts]

Perhaps a call to your local Child Protection Services would be better than a call to the police.

[smtroop168]

Well these kids and this "parent" is officially on my radar. I have seen these kids walking around the down town part of our town unattended so if they show up again without following the rules the police will be called again. We told the kids that we called the police not to get you in trouble, but to get parents to understand what they did is wrong and against the rules, but they were afraid of getting a "butt-whoopin" so they felt the urge to lie.

IMHO..this is "officially" out of your purview now. Get the proper folks involved and let them do their jobs.

Perhaps a call to your local Child Protection Services would be better than a call to the police.

Yes. The 2 organizations do work together though.