webloes camping out w/the scout troop

[Mrw]

Considering some families have more than one boy in the program, mandating a 1:1 ratio doesn't make much sense.

My twin nephews only have the one dad to bring camping with them.

[riverwalk]

And of course that would be acceptable, as long as they met other Adult criteria on the outing.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

We have this situation coming up next month for our campout. Looks like 1 webelos will be camping with our troop and his mother is signing a permission slip to go on the campout and be under the troop leaderships supervision without a parent. We're not sure if this is the correct way to go but the boy and his mom want him to camp with us and she does not want to go. She also has younger children which she can't leave with anyone else.

[momma_bee]

Micah - about your question...

What would make your troop comfortable? Does either the PLC or leaders have a requirement with a valid reason? (perhaps the property owner has his own restrictions)

How does the Pack feel? Do they have special situations, like brothers or medical/behavior issues that require special attention?

Address those needs (on paper) and then look at the G2SS. Does your plan follow the guide? Is it less than what the guide wants? Then fix it. Is it more? Make sure that the leaders understand why and go with it.

[FrankJ]

As long as there is an adult willing to take charge of the Webelos, I do not think there is a problem with that. I would also be sure that the Web is paired with a buddy & both undstand the importance of the buddy system.

[vpalango]

I tend to agree with Waigonvil on this, as this is one of the famous BSA loopholes....

It has previously been explained to me (by a district scouter) that when Webelos camp with a Troop they may camp under Boy Scout camping rules (i.e. - it does not have to be family camping).

However, in practice, it's was recommended to me that Scoutmasters work closely with the Webelo leaders to make sure we present a positive camping experience to the Webelos. What I do is work very closely with those Den Leaders, and let them know that parents don't "need" to come with each boy. However, they also need to consider which boys need a parent with them, because they won't be able to handle a Boy Scout campout without the parent there.

In a few weeks we'll be hosting Webelos under these rules at a district camporee designed for troops to sponsor Webelo dens along. How we run it is that the Webelos camp somewhat separately from the Troop. Parents camp with the Webelos, following YPT guidelines. We make sure that every boy not with a parent has a buddy in a tent (it's way too much to expect a Webelo to sleep alone in a tent). This year we are taking 4 older scouts who will be assigned to be "guides" (yes, all these boys are essentially being given a test run at the troop guide position), to the Webelos and stay with them throughout the activities for the day.

At Dinner, the boys cook dinner with the Webelos, while the Parents eat with the adult leaders of the Troop. This allows the Webelos to get a flavor of "doing it on thier own", with parents in very close proximity. Then overnight, after the campfire, everyone beds down as planned, and we say goodbye to them in the morning.

It's worked well for us, and we haven't had any problems making this all work.

YIS,

[CapXK]

From the Webelos Leader Guide under Webelos Camping

In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent. If a parent cannot attend, the boy's family must arrange for another youth's parent (but not the Webelos leader) or other adult to be his parent substitute on the campout. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be supervised by an adult. Parent substitutes may supervise only one Webelos Scout in addition to their own son.

[tsexton205]

I (along with the Pack Cubmaster) have a very simlar problem. Rule 4 for AOL says they have to participate in a Boy Scout outdoor activity. For our Troop, that has been an overnight camping trip (for at least the last 10 years). the Troop usually goes out on Friday night and comes back Sunday afternoon. Webelos usually join us on Saturday morning until at least after breakfast Sunday. They are also welcome for the whole trip. this way they spend at least one night. We feel this gives them an opportunity to see how a Troop works BEFORE they join. Some Cubs are not up to the activities and requirements of a Boy Scout. We have a den leader that says the boys do not have to camp overnight for the AOL. Who decides on what qualifies as an outdoor activity? Unless it is a service project, ALL of our "outdoor activites" involve camping. I would appreciate any help anyone has. Where do i find the "rules"???

[Fibonacci]

tsexton ~ looks like you found an old post with some good information. The current AOL requirements state:
With your Webelos den, visit at least
one Boy Scout troop meeting, and
one Boy Scout-oriented outdoor activity.

In my opinion, spending just Saturday with your troop at their campout would count as visiting a Boy Scout-oriented outdoor activity. Spending the night should not be required.

However, if you have Webelos who are really not interested in camping, then perhaps you could suggest to the den leader that the Webelos look for a troop that doesn't camp as often, but perhaps does more day hikes, bike trips, or other outdoor activities.

Our challenge has been that the outdoor activities the troop is doing when Webelos are ready to participate (March, April) are activities that they can't do: snow cave camping and Merit Badge weekend. The usual choice is Klondike in February; the district allows Webelos to participate separate from the Boy Scouts, but nearby.

Good luck with this issue.

[tsexton205]

I suppose that is true. of course, here in the Southeast, we are not limited by "cold" weather, and rain doesn't count unless it has a tornado. the problem is more for the Cubmaster, but I know that I may be seeing some of these parents after crossover. The big question was who defines the outdoor activity. I will leave the AOL decision to the Cubmaster. I guess I just think that the Webelos, and parent, should see a Troop campout before joining. That way they know what to expect. Thanks for the help.

[Fibonacci]

Three more things
1) When I was the den leader, I determined what counted as an outdoor activity. I don't know if I was supposed to, but I did.
2) When you get a chance, add your council name to your profile.
3) Welcome to the forum!

[Mrw]

My boys both went to a troop swimming evening with the troop at the city's inddor pool for theirs.

The older boy was to have spent the day on a Saturday at a troop campout in January, but the high temp for the day was predicted to be windy and below 0F, and the camp was closed because the Council did not want kids with frostbite.

The second one had other outdoor experiences with the troop beforehand, but to get the last of his den to have an experience, we took them swimming very shortly before they earned the AOL.

[Chief J]

We invite our Webelo 2 dens to go camping with us in Novembewr each year. We specifically set this month's camping trip aside to display the Troop to potential crossovers.

For the Webelo's we reserve a cabin at one of our local scout camps. The Troop tent camps in the field next to the cabin. Saturday is spent having the Boy Scouts teach introductory camp skills to the Webelos. Saturday evening is always a campfire complete with skits to unwind.

We usually do a Thanksgiving feast prepared by the Scouts of the Troop complete with Turkey's and all the trimmings.

For this trip we encourage an adult parent to attend with the Webelo for 2 reasons, 1) The Troop gets to show the parents what we do as well as their Webelo, and 2) on Saturday evening we hold an adult cracker barrel where we talk to the parents and begin discussing transition from Webelo to Boy Scout i.e., what kind of equipment he will need, how the Troop operates, how they can become involved in the Troop as committee members, and/or merit badge counselors.

Best Regards,
Chief J

[Nuts4Scouts]

Many Webelos dens go on a campout with a Troop as their outdoor activity. Many do not use an overnight.

Any activity done outside, for any amount of time is an outdoor activity.

Who decides what activities (outdoor or in) the Webelos den goes on? The Webelos den leader and the parents of course.

The AOL requirement simply says "outdoor activity", not overnight outdoor activity.

A SM has every right to say that the only outdoor activity they will allow Webelos to do with their Troop is an overnight campout. A SM can also state that Webelos will not be allowed to come to the campout only for the day.

Likewise, a Webelos den leader has every right to find a different Troop to do their Troop activities with.

[Chief J]

...A SM has every right to say that the only outdoor activity they will allow Webelos to do with their Troop is an overnight campout. A SM can also state that Webelos will not be allowed to come to the campout only for the day.

Likewise, a Webelos den leader has every right to find a different Troop to do their Troop activities with.

My personal opinion (and we know what those are worth) any SM that wants to be this narrow-minded should lose or at least damage the relationship with their lifeline.

We never made it a requirement, just an invitation, because we believe that outdoors is what we do best. Troop meetings may or may not be exciting, but it all comes together in the outdoors, and that is also where we spend a great deal of our time (minimum of 1 outing per month)

Troop leadership needs to remember that nothing is certain and they need to sell their product to the Webelos.

Regards,
Chief J

[tsexton205]

I am beginning to think that some of this has gotten off line. First of all, our Troop does not say that the Webelos HAVE to attend an overnight campout with us (that is a decision made by the Pack). Second, ALL of our outdoor activites include camping. The choice to stay is up to the Webelos scout and parent (most of which don't show up except for drop-off and pick up). Third, we have made several opportunities for these Webelos and Den leaders to go with us. Now they have waited and want to go when the District has a Camporee at the end of March. Crossover was scheduled for the first weekend in March which means now the church has to be notified to see if a weekend in April is available. This church is pretty active, and we have to schedule use of rooms well in advance. This means the boys will spend less time with the Troop before summer camp. How many changes do you make for one Den Leader?

In the past, the boys who came over to the Troop and decided not stay after a few months were the ones who didn't attend a camping trip before joining. My opinion is that they didn't know ahead what to expect and thought it would be like camping as a Cub Scout.

[wagionvigil]

This is why I truly believe we need to go Back and work on a school year. The Webelos would finish the entire school year and summer with the Pack then cross over at the Beginning of the next school year.

I also believe that we could offer the following incentive. If a webelos 2 has attended your councils long term camps as a webelos they would be able to cross over early.

[Nuts4Scouts]

Yes, Webelos who attend campouts do get a better idea of how the Troop operates. Yes, boys who cross earlier, and go to summer camp with a Troop seem to have a better retention.

However you can't force them. Do you want these Webelos to cross to your Troop? If so then you will need to stop complaining that they are not doing things your way and do everything you can to make their experience a good one.

When (or indeed if) a Webelos crosses to a Troop is, in a major sense, determined by the Webelos himself. While it is possible the Webelos den leader has been procrastinating somewhat, it is just as possible the boys are not ready to cross over yet. It is also possible that the den leader is trying to keep all of the Webelos together for crossing and a few have not finished some requirements yet.

There are a million reasons why this den could be postponing their crossover. Yes, it might be better if they did things differently, but in the end it is up to them.

"How many changes do you make for a den leader?" I guess it depends on if you want their boys in your Troop or not.

As for scheduling time with the church, it sounds like the Troop and the Pack both have the church as their CO. I would think the Pack already has dates scheduled for their Pack meetings every month until at least June. Why would they need to schedule a different time for their crossover?

[kwildman]

Our troop has a standing invitation that webelos may join any campout with the exception of certain activity specific campouts such as Klondike or where there is boating or hiking involved. Our Den Chief works very closely with the den leaders to coordinate these.

It was previously stated what the webelos leader guide requirements are for camping. Due to youth protection issues we discourage all of our leaders from "adopting" cub scouts. We have never had a problem getting another non-leader parent to fill this role.

Kevin

[pipestone1991]

We took the W2s on the Febuary campout (I was not there). When I was a W2 in 02-03 we camped with them the spring previous as W1s....we ended up only staying for a few hours before the rain forced us out.