Cub Scouts Take Polar Plunge

[kwildman]

I am a fan of venturing but i think that is just more scouting... i would not make it a mandatory move and I would not encourage most of my scouts to bite more than they can chew if Crew is going to slow down their eagle advancement. We try to make our high adventure activities special for the older scouts but it can be a challenge.

[smtroop168]

Should we split the "Great Divide" discussion from the Polar Plunge?

Also there was an old song called "Right String...Wrong Yo-yo". The intentions (String) to support their Cub Leader in his time of need are great. The Plunge with all the potential concerns addressed is the Yo-yo. It was a scouting activity and therefore subject to all the rules/regulations. Were they all followed? Dunno but I doubt it.

[biglou]

Being a quasi-medical professional (Paramedic/911 dispatcher), and no I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn last night, I would not have even thought of putting Cub Scouts in a situation like that. Just a plain bad decision. I thought is was cool that they wanted to help their leader out, but what other options could they have done? Hmmmmm.......Like a spaghetti dinner? I know a company in PA that charges like $0.75/meal and it is quite good. Actually real good. The only catch is you have to travel to pick the food up. For that price, I would not hesitate to do that. The GTSS is not just a document that you can follow when you want. You break a rule, you are liable and should suffer the consequences. If that means going bye bye, Oh well. I know of several Troops that are breaking the rules here but it seems the powers that be are turning a blind eye towards them because they are on a Council Committee or their Troop has the largest numbers.


As for Venturing, I am a supporter for it. I would not like to see it mandated that all boys go into Venturing after a certain age. Wait a minute, I forgot about this one. A boy can be both members of a Troop and a Crew without having to pay for fees for both. But, I am waiting to see what happens.

[wagionvigil]

They can also finish Eagle in the Crew as long as they are First Class when the move to a crew. The Advisor signs everything.Then they have intil they are 21 to finish their Ranger Award.

[Mrw]

This is a link from another forum to a thread also discussing this. There is a long post from the Den Leader who organized the event regarding the approval process he went through before they actually took their plunge. Although I personally still question the wisdom of doing this with kids that age, it is nice to get, "The rest of the story."

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThrea ... 222829&p=3

[kwildman]

i really dont care if their Distric/council or the National BSA signed off on this event. I still hold that it is irresponsible. I am also pretty sure that it does violate safe swim guidelines as well.

Do you think maybe I can get my council approval for bungee jumping the new river on Bridge day if we do it to support some charity?

[FieldSports]

After reading the den leader's post. I want to donate to these Cub Scouts. Totally awsome show of courage (and proper planning). But then again, I wanted a "Polar Bear" patrol for Wood Badge.

[wagionvigil]

I read through that thread from the link and I never really saw where they had the blessing of the BSA. I brought this up to our Area Director and was told point blank.No Way!

[FrankJ]

If you read pack116's post on page three, he said he presented the idea to the council & had their approval. Obviously if they asked some one else, they may have had a different answer, but if their council approved it, it was an approved event.

[kwildman]

Just because council approved it doesn't make it right. Do you think Councils are always right?

[wagionvigil]

Many Professionals really do not understand the rules undtil they have to defend someone. Many years ago I had a CUb SCout leader call me and ask if he coud take his pack on a yough river trip. The section was the middle yough. I said no. Of course he came back and said well they say a 4 year old can do it. I replied that is correct but Cubs are not permitted on moving water, flat water lakes only. He was not happy with that answer so he called the service center and the Field Director said he saw nothing wrong with it. The Guy called me back and told me what he was told and was rubbing it in my face. At which time I called the service center and then the field director had to call him back and tell him he was wrong and if they did that there would be repercussions. The rules are there follow them. Read them. Obey them or leave the program.

[FrankJ]

Many Professionals really do not understand the rules until they have to defend someone.

So the rules are so complicated the professionals do not understand them & a volunteer (only a hour a week) is supposed to?

Seriously if you call & honestly ask the pros that do the tour permits if something is permitted you should be able to go by their answer, especially if it comes with an approved tour permint. If they do not know, they should find out & not just say yes (or no). Same for the DEs as for as that goes. Since the council is the BSA as for as the unit goes, you should be able to go what with they tell you.

If a council is not following BSA guide lines, that is between them & the BSA, not the unit.

[wagionvigil]

A good Exec will say here is where you find that information or call the council climbing director or Aquatics director or the risk management person. I have several other interesting stories where the Exec really did not know he BSA Policy or rule. The rule in our council is to give the contact information for the correct person to contact(see above).

[robclarkcsm]

Reading all the posts I can see both sides of the "legal" BSA activity argument. I just wanted to through my thoughts out quickly. I came across this discussion looking for information on the Polar Bear Plunge. Our Council holds one every residence camp. Keep in mind this is durring the month of August at the crack of dawn and in no way is a comparisson to jumping in water durring winter months. I do believe the message has been missed by many of the "by the book" responces. This activity, although not my cup of tea was aproved and above all it was for a member/ leader of the Pack that participated. A member who has paid (or had paid for him depending on unit set up) National chartering dues, insurance costs, training costs to volunteer his time to help in the development and education of the scouts in the Pack.

The idea that these boys wanted to help raise money for thier ACM is great. It shows that this Pack runs as a family. Think about it, if a member of your family had cancer to what lengths would you go to help out? Maybe the Council of this Pack is more people orriented than book smart and that's why the aproval was granted. Yes, there was a safety concern, but the proper assurances and personal were in place.

As far as raising money by soliciting funds in uniform, get over it. There was no gambeling, and everyone knew what the money was going towards. As far as what the donating people got in return... how about reinforcing important moral values in each and every scout involved and donating to help the Pack (Leaders who are cared about this much are hard to come by). Sounds like an FOS donation to me.

Just remember sticks should be used to splint broken bones, not to keep backs straight.

[wagionvigil]

A polar bear plunge at a scout camp and a polar bear plunge in winter are two different things. WE offer a polar bear swim at all out scout camps. But no one is permitted to authorize a plunge into freezing water in winter. NO ONE!

[wagionvigil]

I will answer another post on here. Professionals do not know all the program answrs because they are not involved in program That is a volunteer responsibility. That is why there is a council Aquatics Director,Climbing Director Etc. The Guide to safe scouting is very easy to read.

[kwildman]

just when you thought it was safe to go in the water again

[LSR]

Dang! I live in Louisiana, a region not noted for (except for this year-6 inches of snow-a most delightful day. It was mostly gone the next) sub zero temps. A few years back, one of my Scouts wanted to do a Polar Plunge during Iditarod. Temps were to be in the 30's at worst, at a pool at camp with BSA lifeguards and quick access to warmth. Great idea! says I and I proposed it to the DE who said likewise. No-go'd by the Scout Exec. Evidently National frowns on the idea. I'd have to agree for Cubs. Minnesota? I July, maybe!