Cub Scouts Take Polar Plunge

[stevejb68]

I do not consider myself crazy (although their are some who think you need to be crazy to be a scoutmaster). For example, they are a number of people each year who decide they need to take a quick dip in a hole cut through the ice of a frozen lake in Minnesota. Would I do that? No way! I am not crazy.

But this year in Lake Minnetonka near Minneapolis, Minnesota, hundreds of people decided to bring in the new year by getting nice and cold in the icy water. Crazy, huh? Well, what caught my attention this year is that a group of Cub Scouts decided to join in the festivities. Here is part of the the article from the KARE 11 website:

"They came from all over the globe, just to say they did it. Hundreds of thrill seekers leaped into Lake Minnetonka New Year's morning, for the 19th annual Polar Plunge. Organizers say 388 people registered to take the plunge this year, far above last year's record of 298. Hundreds more showed up and registered Thursday morning. In all, 908 people jumped into frigid Lake Minnetonka to welcome 2009.

"Among them, Cub Scout Pack 116 from Princeton, Minnesota. The boys recently learned their assistant cub master, Dar Durant, had been diagnosed with cancer, so they took pledges, collected money, and jumped into the lake. The money raised will go to help the family.

"Plunge organizers say people from Canada, England, Iran, and Jamaica registered to take the annual dip this year."

I have to give those Cub Scouts and their leaders the credit that is due them. They did a great job of putting others first and helping someone in need. I am sure this is one plunge they will never forget.

By the way, the link to the KARE 11 website also has a couple videos showing the Cub Scouts taking their Polar Plunge. I am not sure how long the video will be available so check it out quickly.

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article ... 46&catid=2

[wagionvigil]

I see several probable violations.
SSD
Tour Permit

Etc Etc

[Mrw]

Although the kids get kudos for wanting to do something to help out their leader, what adult with any sense allowed them to plan this as a group activity for little kids!

We as adults should be the ones who put the limits on things that may be questionable as group activities. And we should be steering them towards safer and more age appropriate things to do.

[wagionvigil]

I cannot see any council approving a Tour Permit for this.
There are rules for water temperature ask you council water front director.
Physicals are different for Cold weather activities.
etc etc etc.

[stevejb68]

Are you always this negative about things wagionvigil?

How do you know if they had a tour permit or not? It is pretty hard to tell from a brief article and video what Pack plans were made and precautions taken. Obviously, from what I saw in the video and what I know about these activities, the event was very prepared for the possibility of any emergency. You don't have 900 people participate in something like this without everything being thought out very well.

Obviously, the parents gave their permission for this. We do not know if this was an official pack activity, or if the Cubs and families from the Pack decided to participate on this on their own to help their assistant pack leader. If they did it on their own maybe they should not have worn their uniforms, but I still stand behind them. Keep in mind, this was not a Scouting or council sponsored event. It was a community event.

[wagionvigil]

No not at all. I think them wanting to support their leader is great But we must follow BSA rules and regulations. Parents can give all the permissions they want but when it says Cub Pack or Webelos Den etc then BSA rules take precedent. Why do you think BSA is putting out a new Physical? Scouts will now have to have a yearly physical, Weight is now important in the physical not just for adults. There is specific Cold weather sign offs. Why do you think Tour Permits are going to be done on My Scouting? I am sorry you feel I am too negative but there is way too much going out of bounds by units. ANd BSA is taking the heat for it and in reality it should be the leaders.

[stevejb68]

The Minneapolis Tribune had a front page article about the Scouts this morning. If I read things correctly, the boys and leaders did this on their own, just like many other projects a family member would do for a local fundraiser. It was not a "Pack activity". The boys decided to wear their uniforms so that people would know they were Scouts doing a good turn for someone in trouble. Sounds like the local Scouting officials were not in favor of them wearing their uniforms, but what could they do? (Kick them out of Scouting?)

The Boy Scout program has received a lot of great press up here due to this good turn done by the Scouts.

[wagionvigil]

The Minneapolis Tribune had a front page article about the Scouts this morning. If I read things correctly, the boys and leaders did this on their own, just like many other projects a family member would do for a local fundraiser. It was not a "Pack activity". The boys decided to wear their uniforms so that people would know they were Scouts doing a good turn for someone in trouble. Sounds like the local Scouting officials were not in favor of them wearing their uniforms, but what could they do? (Kick them out of Scouting?)

The Boy Scout program has received a lot of great press up here due to this good turn done by the Scouts.

The reason BSA was against them wearing their Uniforms was that it would seem to have been approved by the council and it was not. To answer your question about what they could do? You hit the nail oj the head but not the Boys the leaders. There is no amount of good press that could have helped if something would have happened. I had a Cub Pack contact me about taking the Boys Rappelling. I told them it is not approved for Cub Scouts I was told so what they would get the parents to sign waivers I told them no way. They said they would find someone that would take them. I said go ahead and see if you can. I called council and told them council called the Troop leaders.

[stevejb68]

You do have a good point there.

[wagionvigil]

I am just looking out for the Boys. It is amazing how many troops try to bend or break rules. Their idea is No one will Know. Nothing will happen. I was told by a risk management guy once that if it is discussed at a Meeting or has the slightest hint of scouts in anyway it becomes a scout activity regardless of what parents or leaders say.

[scoutaholic]

... I was told by a risk management guy once that if it is discussed at a Meeting or has the slightest hint of scouts in anyway it becomes a scout activity regardless of what parents or leaders say.

This risk management guy was obviously trying to do his job and get the word out. Fortunately, there is no way for such a policy to actually be implemented and enforced.

I have had boys bring up activity ideas during meetings on many occasions. When those activities are not BSA approved, I will say so, and I let them know that any such activity they want to plan will have to be planned and executed on their own time. As SM, there is nothing I can do to stop them from planning such an activity if they so choose.

If the boys plan such an activity on their own time and with the support of their parents it is not a BSA activity. Even if they invite all their scouting friends, it is still NOT a BSA activity.

[wagionvigil]

This was as you can see a Pack activity. And as you can see BSA asked them not to wear uniforms which they did anyway so it became an un authorized BSA activity.

[Nuts4Scouts]

Sounds like the local Scouting officials were not in favor of them wearing their uniforms, but what could they do? (Kick them out of Scouting?)

From what I read, it was the Plunge officials, and not BSA officials, who were against the boys wearing their scout shirts. They were afraid that the shirts would trap the icy water against the boys skin and then freeze solid.

Most of these Polar Bear Plunges recommend wearing tight-fitting, lycra type of material, similar to a wet suit.

It seems it was the Pack's leaders who deceided that the scout shirts should be worn.

[kwildman]

the whole idea of letting cub scouts or boys of this age participate in this activity is idiotic. The showed up in scout uniforms and the leaders were present so it was a scout event. YOu cant do anyting about the parents but you can go after the leaders.. I have participated in a similar charity event and it was absolutely no one under 18 and I had to sign about a half dozen legal waivers.

[wagionvigil]

I am glad someone else agrees with me. What we are seeing more and more are leaders that have no regard for BSA Policies and feel that nothing can happen to them. We have a new chief scout that may see things differently. Also while I am at it Cubs are doing activities that were 20 years ago Boy Scout activities SO IN My Opinion it is time to start the great divide. Start the flaming, I don't care!
Grades 1-5 Cub Scouts and Webelos
Grade 6-8 Boy Scouts
Grade 9- College Venturing No Option as to staying in a troop, mandatory Move!

[Cowboy]

Wagion: Can't say as I agree with the 9th grade mandatory move. If boys were suppose to be done with Boy Scouts by the time they hit High School, we would have virtually no Boy Led Troops, and Eagles would not exist. That being said: I live in Northern WI, about 75 miles east of the Twin Cities. We spend a lot of time training our boys on Winter Survival. One of the things that we train them is to NOT GET WET when it is winter. We spend a lot of time on this with the Troop. There are only two reasons to jump in a lake in the winter: 1) To save someones life; 2) To prove how stupid you are. Allowing a young child to jump in a frozen lake is not honorable, it is inexcusably stupid and irresponsible. It does not matter what reason one gives, these boys could have gotten donations for someone else to jump in (a stupid adult?) Allowing them to do it in a scout uniform with scout leaders there DID make it a quasi BSA sanctioned event. How many people out there are now saying: " I will not let my boy join any group that has little boys doing that." We do not even let our Boy Scouts sleep outside during the winter until they have gone through extensive Winter Survival training and are at least First Class. And they are not getting wet doing that. We are suppose to be teaching the boys to be responsible and use good judgement, this type of "event" only teaches them to take unnecessary risk.

[wagionvigil]

Wagion: Can't say as I agree with the 9th grade mandatory move. If boys were suppose to be done with Boy Scouts by the time they hit High School, we would have virtually no Boy Led Troops, and Eagles would not exist. That being said: I live in Northern WI, about 75 miles east of the Twin Cities. We spend a lot of time training our boys on Winter Survival. One of the things that we train them is to NOT GET WET when it is winter. We spend a lot of time on this with the Troop. There are only two reasons to jump in a lake in the winter: 1) To save someones life; 2) To prove how stupid you are. Allowing a young child to jump in a frozen lake is not honorable, it is inexcusably stupid and irresponsible. It does not matter what reason one gives, these boys could have gotten donations for someone else to jump in (a stupid adult?) Allowing them to do it in a scout uniform with scout leaders there DID make it a quasi BSA sanctioned event. How many people out there are now saying: " I will not let my boy join any group that has little boys doing that." We do not even let our Boy Scouts sleep outside during the winter until they have gone through extensive Winter Survival training and are at least First Class. And they are not getting wet doing that. We are suppose to be teaching the boys to be responsible and use good judgement, this type of "event" only teaches them to take unnecessary risk.

[Mrw]

I still do not agree with you about a mandatory leap to venturing, but you will note I chimed in on about post three of this thread to state that this was not a Cub age-appropriate activity.

[wagionvigil]

I am quite aware that there are a lot more that disagree with me on the Venturing then agree and that is fine. But Cub Scouts are doing too many Boy Scout Activities and they get burned out quickly in Boy Scouts so there must be another level to give them another level of activity. When I was a Cub I could not wait to get in Boy Scouts. AT that time we moved at the Start of the School Year of 6th Grade. Cub Scouts did no Scout Activities NOW they are doing as much as I did when I was in Boy Scouts so we need to redesign the program if it going to stay this way. I also firmly believe that leaders that out and out disregard BSA Policy Must be removed.

[Mrw]

I do agree there are plenty of things that Cubs can do to keep them interested in the program and having fun while leaving the boy scout stuff for the older guys.

And that much of the stuff they should be starting in Boy Scouts is better left to them as older boys so they can learn it for themselves.