After Arrow of Light

[djgeyer]

Hello,
I am looking for information about what choices there are after the boy earns the Arrow of Light. Some believe that after the boy earns the AoL that he may hang out in the pack until he choices to cross over. If this is true can the boy earn more of the Activity pins to become a Super Achiever? I know that there is an age where the boy is no longer eligible for Cub Scouts. My concern is that once the boy earns the AoL that if he does not immediately cross over into Boy Scouts then he will never Cross over, he will just leave scouting. Thank you.
Dan Geyer

[smtroop168]

Hello,
I am looking for information about what choices there are after the boy earns the Arrow of Light. Some believe that after the boy earns the AoL that he may hang out in the pack until he choices to cross over. If this is true can the boy earn more of the Activity pins to become a Super Achiever? I know that there is an age where the boy is no longer eligible for Cub Scouts. My concern is that once the boy earns the AoL that if he does not immediately cross over into Boy Scouts then he will never Cross over, he will just leave scouting. Thank you.
Dan Geyer

Welcome to the Forum.

First what he can do after the AOL is somewhat up to him and how much time there is between the AOL and the time he crosses over. My Cub info is a little dated but my son earned all 20 Activity Pins and all his Compass Points. Also depending on your faith, he can earn his Religious Emblems as well.

There is no restriction on your son joining Boy Scouts as soon as he earns his AOL, especially if his interest looks like it is waning. I realize most Packs have the Webelos 2 group do this all at once but some Cubs do not join Boy Scouts so "crossing over" is pointless.

It looks like my troop will get 2 new scouts out of the 7 that are W2s. Of the other 5 that are registered, 4 do not attend meetings. I told the parents that they do not need to feel any obligation to wait for the others if their sons are good to go.

[djgeyer]

It there any restriction on earning belt-loops, activity pins, the cub scout religious knot, and so on after earning the AoL? When my oldest earned his Arrow of Light he was automatically crossed over into Boy Scouts. I looked up the requirements in his old book and in order to earn it he had to fill out an application and turn it in. Since then the requirement has changed. So my main question is can they continue earning after they earn the Arrow of Light?

[smtroop168]

It there any restriction on earning belt-loops, activity pins, the cub scout religious knot, and so on after earning the AoL? When my oldest earned his Arrow of Light he was automatically crossed over into Boy Scouts. I looked up the requirements in his old book and in order to earn it he had to fill out an application and turn it in. Since then the requirement has changed. So my main question is can they continue earning after they earn the Arrow of Light?

Don't think so...there is no restriction on earning Merit Badges after you make Eagle in Boy Scouts.

[PaulSWolf]

It there any restriction on earning belt-loops, activity pins, the cub scout religious knot, and so on after earning the AoL? When my oldest earned his Arrow of Light he was automatically crossed over into Boy Scouts. I looked up the requirements in his old book and in order to earn it he had to fill out an application and turn it in. Since then the requirement has changed. So my main question is can they continue earning after they earn the Arrow of Light?

No, there are no restrictions, other than AGE. A Webelos Scout may remain in the Webelos Den and Cub Scout Pack after he earns the AoL, and continue to earn Cub Scout/Webelos Scout advancements until he turns 11 1/2, OR he may transfer into a Boy Scout Troop once he has the Aol and is at least 10 years old - HIS CHOICE.

[Cowboy]

There are no restrictions. But why "hold him back"? He can do all of the same things as a Boy Scout that he did as a Cub, but with more fun injected. We never have a problem with boys wanting to hang at Cubs, we have the boys wanting to get into the Troop too quickly.

[Nuts4Scouts]

A Webelos does not have to automatically cross to Boy Scouts as soon as he has earned his AOL.

A Webelos can stay with his Pack until the end of 5th grade, or he turns 11.5 - whichever is LATER.

However, there are a few things to consider.

Religious Emblem - these are not from the BSA. It would depend on the religious institution and the particular award. Most have specific age/grade restrictions, however since the awards are not BSA based, it usually does not matter if they are a 5th grade Cub Scout, or a 5th grade Boy Scout.

Super Achiever - Webelos Activity Badges are not like Wolf Electives. They can not be simply earned on your own at home. The work on these badges MUST be approved by the Webelos den leader, or someone approved by the Webelos den leader. Is there a den leader for this boy to work with? Is the 5th grade Webelos den leader staying with the Pack? Would the boy be meeting with the 4th graders? Would he get bored meeting with the 4th graders who are doing work he has already completed?

Boy Scouts - Is there a Troop he wants to cross into? Often a den of Webelos will stay together as they move to Boy Scouts, and form their own New Scout Patrol. They will learn about Boy Scouting together. How does this Webelos feel about possibly not being in the same Patrol with his Webelos buddies?

Who REALLY wants to stay in Cub Scouts? The Webelos, or the parent? Is there a reason, besides wanting more bling, that this Webelos wants to stay with the Pack?

[Cowboy]

And remember: The AOL is the ONLY thing that goes with him from Cubs to Boy Scouts. More Bling at this point is just something that will get thrown in a drawer and forgotten when he starts to earn MB's, BSA Awards, and Rank.

[Mrw]

Our Webelos got their AOL at the Blue & Gold in Feb and crossed over to the troop at the pack meeting in mid Feb.

We spent those last couple meetings finishing up stuff for the almost finished pins as the guys wanted all the bling they could get. One of my dens also used that time to help out the last kid who was behind so he could finish the AOL and cross over with the rest of the group.

Then the last den meeting we had a party.

Our other feeder pack has their B&G in mid March and awards the AOL as they cross the boys to the troop.

The nice thing is that the troop gets all the new boys at once, which is easier logistically.

[WeeWillie]

A Scout troop appears to be a whole lot friendlier when you cross over with a friend from your den or school particularly when you are 10.5 years old. In too many cases neither the troop nor the new Scout ready of a single crossover.

Years ago I had a Dad that just had to get his son into Scouts so he could have a head start for Eagle. The kid was a pest (a.k.a. acting his age) whose behavior would have been masked with 4-5 other new Scouts, instead it stood out. The older Scouts viewed him as an anoyance and that reputation stuck until he moved 7 months later.

[alex gregory]

Hello,
My concern is that once the boy earns the AoL that if he does not immediately cross over into Boy Scouts then he will never Cross over, he will just leave scouting.

Your concern is spot on, which is precisely why Webelos is now an 18 month program with cross over happening Spring of 5th grade rather than September of 6th grade. Joining a troop in Spring and then summer camp before starting 6th grade is about the best way to get a boy energized and excited about Boy Scouts.

There are, however, lots of boys who regret the decision to drop out of Scouts after they earned AOL. Frequently they see how much fun their buddies are having who stayed in Scouting, and come back later (usually toward the end of 6th or 7th grade).

[djgeyer]

Personally I feel that it is the parent rather than the cub that wants to stick it out until June. He is the Cubmaster and wants to start his own troop. Although I see the merits in staying put for a few months I do not see the need to. As you say, who really wants to stay in Cub Scouts. My middle son cannot wait to get out of CS and get into the troop with his older brother.

[alex gregory]

Personally I feel that it is the parent rather than the cub that wants to stick it out until June. He is the Cubmaster and wants to start his own troop. Although I see the merits in staying put for a few months I do not see the need to. As you say, who really wants to stay in Cub Scouts. My middle son cannot wait to get out of CS and get into the troop with his older brother.

I expected the delay to cross over has more to do with a parent then the Scout. With the exception of AOL, and possibly being able to brag that you earned all (20?) acheivement pins, nobody in Boy Scouts is going to be all that interested in what the Scout did as a Cub Scout. The 2 to 4 months between cross-over and summer camp can be invaluable to a new Boy Scout, and an opportunity to quickly advance in rank precisely when the boys are usually the most gung-ho. That's why I think using those same 2 to 4 months remaining with a Cub Scout Pack after earning AOL and cross-over with the rest of the Webelo Den is mostly wasted time.

Having Dad start his own troop in order to satisfy dad's ego, or because dad thinks he has all the answers to how to a troop should be run, or because dad thinks that is how Junior can get Eagle by the time he is 11 1/2 years old (because that is really important), is really an awful way for a new scout to experience Boy Scouts. I hope it works out for Junior.

[Nuts4Scouts]

Having Dad start his own troop in order to satisfy dad's ego, or because dad thinks he has all the answers to how to a troop should be run, or because dad thinks that is how Junior can get Eagle by the time he is 11 1/2 years old (because that is really important), is really an awful way for a new scout to experience Boy Scouts. I hope it works out for Junior.

Whoa - Hold on there! All we REALLY know is that a CM wants to start a new Troop. Accusing him of all of these things is neither "trustworthy", or "courteous".

There are folks starting new Troops every day. Are they all doing it to satisfy their own ego?

The main reason new Troops are formed is because there is a need for a Troop. There are various reasons why a new Troop is needed, but one that I hear very often is that none of the other Troops in the area is a good fit, and unless a new Troop is formed, some boys will simply drop out. As a matter of fact, that suggestion is given, by folks HERE, to many of the disgruntled parents who come to this board!

We only know one side here.

Since the father of the Webelos is CM, and he is going to be starting a new Troop, I can now understand WHY he wants his son to stay on in the Pack for a while. He is staying with the Pack until the new Troop is formed. Why put his son into a Troop that he does not feel is right for his son? Why should the boy cross to a Troop, make friends, form Patrol bonds, etc, only to leave in a few months? Wouldn't that just be harder on the boy?

Much better to stay in the Pack, work with the 4th grade Webelos den leader, earn some more Cub stuff, and keep involved in Scouting. Then, when the new Troop is formed, move into that Troop.

Since it is the Scout's father who is forming the new Troop, I really doubt that Mr Geyer's stated fears of the boy not continuing in Scouting have any basis.

[Cowboy]

I really struggle with that "not a good fit" idea. I buy boots after trying them on and determining if I can wear them and become comfortable in them. The reality is that my feet will never slide into a new pair of boots and be a good fit. Once I wear them for a while they will stretch and reform to accomodate my feet. The same happens with a Troop. The Troop, if correctly BOY LEAD, will conform to the boys in it. Part of what we are suppose to be teaching the boys is working together with many different people, not just the 5 guys that they started with in Tigers. Part of what I teach my son and try to teach any boy in our Troop is that it does not matter if you Wrestle and they play Basketball (a big fight in the school) you are both Scouts and you will set that difference aside and concentrate on your common interests. Sorry about this, but I am sick of all of the concentration on differencees and not enough concentration on commonality. Look around you and see where most of the conflict in our country and world comes from. It is not that people are trying to work together and share knowledge and strength, it is that everyone wants to concentrate on what is different and try to make other people believe that they are right.

[cballman]

Weblos used to be a TWO year program when my son was was a cub. We crossed over our boys in the March -April area. I feel that if you crossover a child to early they become just a pawn for the adults. Say they crossover in December then the Troop goes camping in January. Wow most of the time her in KY the temps are not to warm then. Then little Johnny wants to go. Wow thats great now lets go out a have to purchase a lot of gear quickly so he can go. Sleeping bag, backpack, boots, jacket, and so on. Wow he hates his first campout WHY because its COLD. He has a miserable time just because he is a Boy Scout now. So now he wants to quit because we made him go camping in the cold. I think that when they crossover in the spring they have a better chance of sticking with scouting because of the time they need to get used to esch other before they go to SUMMER CAMP. If they crossover to late in the year they dont feel accepted by the other younger scouts. And then SUMMER CAMP is spent crying wanting to go home because they are not having fun. These are just some of the things that I have seen in my last few years as a Boy Scout Leader. Are these true for everyone NO but they have been tried and tested in my Troop.

[kwildman]

i have found that crossing our webelos in February has really helped our webelos to scout transistion. Before this we were losing more webelos because they got tired of the program. Young scouts provide new challenges to the troop but it is how they are addressed. Winter camping for example is optional and we require the new scouts equipment to be inspected before they can go. We have a lot of extra gear that has been donated or is owned by leaders so we can properly outfit any that want to attend.

[WVBeaver05]

i have found that crossing our webelos in February has really helped our webelos to scout transistion. Before this we were losing more webelos because they got tired of the program. Young scouts provide new challenges to the troop but it is how they are addressed. Winter camping for example is optional and we require the new scouts equipment to be inspected before they can go. We have a lot of extra gear that has been donated or is owned by leaders so we can properly outfit any that want to attend.

I have had similar results and continue to push for February (or so) cross over. March camping is usually not the same as Jan/Feb, so that helps.

But the big issue is that when we get end of school year (i.e. June) cross overs we have no time for local, weekend camping with the new Scouts before summer camp. So what, you may ask. Well, often what that causes is PARENTS not being ready to let the new Scout go to summer camp. I won't repeat all of the things that parents have told me about why the Scout can/shouldn't go.


YiS

[robclarkcsm]

And remember: The AOL is the ONLY thing that goes with him from Cubs to Boy Scouts. More Bling at this point is just something that will get thrown in a drawer and forgotten when he starts to earn MB's, BSA Awards, and Rank.

Not true. Arrow of Light, Religion knot, and Meritorious Award are the THREE that transfer over.

[robclarkcsm]

I really struggle with that "not a good fit" idea. I buy boots after trying them on and determining if I can wear them and become comfortable in them. The reality is that my feet will never slide into a new pair of boots and be a good fit. Once I wear them for a while they will stretch and reform to accomodate my feet. The same happens with a Troop. The Troop, if correctly BOY LEAD, will conform to the boys in it. Part of what we are suppose to be teaching the boys is working together with many different people, not just the 5 guys that they started with in Tigers. Part of what I teach my son and try to teach any boy in our Troop is that it does not matter if you Wrestle and they play Basketball (a big fight in the school) you are both Scouts and you will set that difference aside and concentrate on your common interests. Sorry about this, but I am sick of all of the concentration on differencees and not enough concentration on commonality. Look around you and see where most of the conflict in our country and world comes from. It is not that people are trying to work together and share knowledge and strength, it is that everyone wants to concentrate on what is different and try to make other people believe that they are right.

I understand and agree fully with what you are saying. However, if the local Troop(s) are functioning correctly then the WEBELOS II's should have some good exposure to the members of the Troop. IE Troop visits, Camping with the Troop. Both are requirements for the AOL. If a boy does not feel welcomed or accepted during these activities, they will not want to join the Troop. I'm just saying there is a lot more than going through the motions.