Den Fundraiser

[Ms_Scouter]

When my husband became Cubmaster very recently, there was this one den leader who immediately stated that he no longer planned to worry about the pack and that his full intention was to care strictly for his den and only his den. The Pack Committee wanted to deal with this situation very quickly and bluntly but my husband wanted (and still wants) to try to basically kill the guy with kindness in hopes that he can win him over and thus win him back to the "team". The latest issue with this situation was yesterday when the den leader informed my husband that he wanted to do fundraisers specifically for his den only. My husband asked the council if the den leader was allowed to do this and our council had no clue.

Does anyone here know the BSA's stance on this and if so, is it in writing somewhere that we can refer to?

[Mrw]

I had my Cubs collecting aluminum cans to recycle instead of tracking dues to pay for craft stuff, etc. I cannot imagine that the den itself actually needs much fundraising.

I might tell the den leader that fundraising of very much just for the den is not really acceptable. But treat him gently or you will likely lose both the leader and all the boys in that den. And be sure to communicate all Pack dates and activities to the parents of the boys in that den, as he may not do so himself. Just make sure it looks like you are passing the same information on to all other Pack parents the same way.

[Ms_Scouter]

Thank you so much for your response. Until all of this happened, all of the leaders thought he was golden. He really seemed like a great guy until right after my husband because Cubmaster. The guy decided he wanted Committee Chair but the problem was...the position was not open. When he talked to my husband and basically expected him to try to force her out of the position, my husband stated that he didn't feel he had justification since she was doing her job. This is when he turned from golden to bitter. He literally changed overnight. My husband was very kind when he spoke to him and let him know he thought he would be a great committee chair if the position should ever become available but that didn't work. The guy was so petty that at the next committee meeting my husband greeted him and went to shake his hand and the guy slowly glared at my husband's hand and turned and walked away. He did not realize, but other committee members saw his actions and this caused a huge situation where my husband had to fight to keep him as a den leader (my husband is a huge role model when it comes to seeing the best in people. Quite frankly, I could learn a lot from him because I am not near as forgiving).

[Nuts4Scouts]

I am (somewhat ) surprised that your local council could not give you an answer. I knew I had read this in some BSA publication, and after a bit of searching I found what you needed in "The Cub Scout Leader Book". A publication all Pack leaders should have at hand.

PACK MONEY-EARNING PROJECTS
Finances for the purchase of den and pack flags or other items or equipment not provided for by the
pack budget may be obtained from pack money-earning projects. Before deciding on money-earning
projects, the pack should have a clear understanding of BSA rules regarding these matters.

A pack must follow certain rules when planning a money-earning project:
- Money-earning projects may be conducted only with council approval. File a Unit
Money-Earning Application with your local council service center to obtain approval.
- Money-earning projects are pack, not den, activities and should be suited to the ages and
abilities of the boys. Proper adult supervision must be provided.
- The pack committee and chartered organization must approve all money-earning projects.
The project must be implemented because there is a real Scouting need for it, not merely
because someone offered an attractive plan. It is best if Cub Scouts can earn their own way.

So - Per BSA, no den money earning activities allowed.

Also, on the DL pouting about the Cubmaster not making him CC - A Cubmaster does NOT have the ability to appoint, or even approve, a Committee Chair, much less "fire" one.

A BSA unit is "owned" by it's Charter Organization. Take a look at a BSA Adult Application, and see who approves the application for each role in a Pack. The Cubmaster (CM) position is approved by the Committee Chair (CC), and either the Charter Organization Representative (COR), or the head of the Charter Organization (IH). The Committee Chair is approved by either the Charter Organization Representative, or the head of the Charter Organization. NOT the Cubmaster.

How are this fellow's Scouts doing? Is the den advancing? Are the boys having fun? Does the den participate in the monthly Pack meetings, and Pack activities?

If the Scouts in the den are happy, and doing well, then you might counsel the CM to invite the den leader, the CC, and possibly the COR, to a friendly cuppa at your nearest coffee shop, and have a discussion about how a Pack works, and how his attitude is affecting things.

If the Scouts in his den are NOT happy, and doing well, then you might want to counsel the CM to get together with the CC, and COR, and discuss replacement options.

Gook luck!

[FrankJ]

As Nuts said, then den leader is confused of the power structure of the pack. At least on paper. You also cannot be the CC & a DL at the same time anyway. With the facts as stated it is time for a sit down. The best result would be to find a happy solution. If the DL cannot resolve his issues with the pack maybe his family will be happier somewhere else. Having been involved with something similar, the worst thing you can do is let if fester.

[Ms_Scouter]

Thank you both for your replies. We actually emailed the National Council for help and they were very helpful. We let the den leader know that this was not allowed in as nice of a way as we could. So far he seems to be taking it well. I am hoping this stays the case.

Anyhow, thank you so much again for your time and help. If he does bring it up again, now I have a place to actually point to.

[FrankJ]

To be honest, it is not allowed is not a complete answer. If the pack committee approved it, the proper paper work filed, & the council approved it, it would be OK. The council would probably consider it a pack fund raiser with a narrow focus. In your case it is not allowed because it did not get past the pack approval. I have a hard time imagining a need for den level fund raiser.

While I don't believe in micromanaging. The den is part of the pack which is a part of the Charter Org. Anything the den does requires at least tacit approval of the pack & charter org leader. Admittedly back when I was a den leader the charter org had no clue what we where doing as a den.

I do hope you are able to mend fences with the den leader. Good den leaders are to be valued. As well as a cub master, committee chairs...