Unit Leader Signature

[Mrw]

Starting and not completing a merit badge can be a good outcome depending on the reason for the partial. If it is because the boy decided it might be too hard and gave up, that is not so good. If it because he learned something about the topic and found he was very much not interested in it after all, that is good because it lets him go on to find what he really does want to pursue.

[WeeWillie]

You can not create a rule for every situation in Scouting. At some time, you have to accept the good faith and sound judgement of your SM. If you don't, you should not have appointed him or her in the 1st place or be in the process of removing him or her in the 2nd place.

Responsibility for designating MBCs is explictly and exclusively assigned to the SM. If a SM is going to be temporarily absent for a period of time then an Acting SM is appointed. There is no legitimate reason for going to another MBC other than the one that was designated. If there is a problem, go back to the SM, give him or her your reasons and ask for another. If your explanation is legitimate I'm confident the vast majority of SMs will designate new MBC. If not ask for an explanation. A SM who denies a valid request for a new MBC probably has other policies that are not consistent with his responsibilities to exercise good faith and sound judgement. He or she needs to be removed or you find a new troop.

I've had parents/ASMs who have tried to end run me with MBCs or have gone merit badge mill shopping. I remind them that 4 points of the Scout Law apply. They are Trustworthy, Loyal, Courtious and Obedient.

We are suposed to be preparing our Scouts to be productive members of our society. Try doing an end run arround your supervisor and see the consequences.

I have never had to deny a blue card to a Scout in my troop because during my SMCs we set goals. "Wait another year for Canoeing MB so you have time to build up your strength." "Why not wait for Citizenship of the Nation until 8th Grade when you cover the material in Social Studies." Personal Fitness - 9th Grade Health...

It's been my experience that it isn't the Scouts who are pushing merit badges, it's their parents.

[committee member]

It was my understanding the scout leaders signature (Scoutmaster or designee) is required on the blue card before the Counselor can begin working with the scout. The signature verifes that the scout has talked to an adult leader and obtained an approved/registered merit badge counselor. I take this information from meritbadge.com.

So is this why the SM (or UL) is required to sign the MB Application before the scout begins working on a MB?

We have had a very small number of counselors so recently we have bee recruiting more. For example, one scout asked his band teacher to be the Bugling merit badge counselor. Our SM would not have known who to tap in that situation.

In the meantime, our SM has told the scouts they can only work on three merit badges at one time (with summer camp as the only exception). This rule does not take into account the nature of the merit badge requirements or the scouts schedules and free time.

How can we work together to come up with some way for any scout to take the responsibility on himself and still get the signed blue card from the SM? I have told the scouts and our MB Counselors that I think the volunteer counselor's schedule should always be respected by the scout and that their time is decided by them. The guidelines do ask that the counselor also respect and consider the scouts obligations and needs.

Now, what is the reason for the SM signature. I originally interpreted it to be a way to keep the lines of communication open so the SM knew what his scouts were interested in and so he could encourage them and simply be aware but now in our unit it seems that it is very much a control issue which seems to be discouraging some of our scouts. Please help! I'll buy any reference that addresses this specific issue. I'll write anyone for clarification. I want to solve this peacefully and rationally with the best interest of the scouts in first place.

[smtroop168]

It was my understanding the scout leaders signature (Scoutmaster or designee) is required on the blue card before the Counselor can begin working with the scout. The signature verifes that the scout has talked to an adult leader and obtained an approved/registered merit badge counselor. I take this information from meritbadge.com.

So is this why the SM (or UL) is required to sign the MB Application before the scout begins working on a MB?

Kinda/sorta...A MB can be started without a MB application (e.g. Camping MB starts on the scout's first campout)

We have had a very small number of counselors so recently we have bee recruiting more. For example, one scout asked his band teacher to be the Bugling merit badge counselor. Our SM would not have known who to tap in that situation.

Is the band teacher willing to sign up to be an official MBC? If so, then should be good to go.

In the meantime, our SM has told the scouts they can only work on three merit badges at one time (with summer camp as the only exception). This rule does not take into account the nature of the merit badge requirements or the scouts schedules and free time.

Wrong...he is restricting a scout's advancement progress

How can we work together to come up with some way for any scout to take the responsibility on himself and still get the signed blue card from the SM? I have told the scouts and our MB Counselors that I think the volunteer counselor's schedule should always be respected by the scout and that their time is decided by them. The guidelines do ask that the counselor also respect and consider the scouts obligations and needs.

Now, what is the reason for the SM signature. I originally interpreted it to be a way to keep the lines of communication open so the SM knew what his scouts were interested in and so he could encourage them and simply be aware but now in our unit it seems that it is very much a control issue which seems to be discouraging some of our scouts. Please help! I'll buy any reference that addresses this specific issue. I'll write anyone for clarification. I want to solve this peacefully and rationally with the best interest of the scouts in first place.

The operative refs for the MB process are the 2009 BS requirements book #33216 pgs 22-23 and the Advancement Committee Policy and procedures #33088. The SM is on a power trip. He is using the term "qualified" to mean "approval" to begin. The purpose of the signature is to ensure the scout understand the process involved in doing a particular MB. As a SM and a District Eagle Coordinator, I view my role as an advisor and ask a scout if they have read the MB requirements and understand any prereqs. I also can help a scout with counselors I know personally that will help them out.

The approach I would use is to ask the SM what he is trying to accomplish through his "policy"? Is he trying to make sure scouts don't collect BCs and never finish them? Would he deny a scout the ability to start an Eagle Required badge? The District/Council would not look fondly on this and a scout/parent could appeal his refusal to sign the application.

[wagionvigil]

There are no such things as "Troop Rules" that apply to advancement.

[kwildman]

i would caution a boy about taking on too many MBs at one time but I would never tell a boy that they cant do a merit badge.

[AquilaNegra2]

I've had parents/ASMs who have tried to end run me with MBCs or have gone merit badge mill shopping. I remind them that 4 points of the Scout Law apply. They are Trustworthy, Loyal, Courteous and Obedient.

So, a Scout who wants to complete the work for six merit badges, take it to a merit badge open format clinic, do the discuss portions with the district-approved MBC can't if the SM chooses to limit him? Or, a Scout's parents who don't feel comfortable with a counselor you've assigned (even if there is no reason except for intuition) can't ask the Scout to choose someone else? Where does it say the SM *assigns* a merit badge counselor? "When a Scout has decided on a merit badge he would like to earn, he obtains from his Scoutmaster the name and phone number of the district/council-approved merit badge counselor." He obtains a name, and HE makes the contact. The SM is *facilitating* this, not approving it.

I have never had to deny a blue card to a Scout in my troop because during my SMCs we set goals. "Wait another year for Canoeing MB so you have time to build up your strength." "Why not wait for Citizenship of the Nation until 8th Grade when you cover the material in Social Studies." Personal Fitness - 9th Grade Health...

That's great -- IF the boy agrees with you. But if he doesn't, an 80-lb 11 year old who tries and fails to swamp and upright his boat has learned a valuable lesson.

[cballman]

This also can also be thought of as what we are dealing with now in schools. NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND. Well I hate to break up peoples ideas about scouting and give little johnny everything. BUT I also think that for little johnny to learn some things he must first try and FAIL. Then and only then will him and his parents understand what we as leaders have been saying for years. I dont want a scout to fail but sometimes he must to learn a life lesson. I am not going to let a child get hurt. Maybe his pride but not his body. I also think that parents need to step back and maybe understand that I know how to nurture little johnny along. Just like the other 8-10-12 new boys that has just started in scouting. As a ASM with a troop for a couple of years I can understand what needs to worked on to help the young man in question. I will also try to explain why I dont think that he needs to try something until he is either older,stronger or just a little smarter. I hate to to parents set their child up to fail. And this is where I see some of these answers going. I dont want keep a child from earning a merit badge but I also dont want to see him get discouraged because he cant understand what is going on.

[committee member]

Thank you all for giving me different perspectives. It seems that the more encouraging we are and willingness to be open-minded with regard to the circumstances at hand combined with a commitment to make sure the scout is offered a quality program, the more success a scout can have in learning, having fun and gaining confidence. It does seem that common sense, good caring communication and guidelines to help programs run smoothly are more important than hard fast limiting rules. Each scout is individually unique.

I also appreciate all the volunteer's and the time they dedicate to working with scouts of varying interests, skills, opportunities, etc.

I really appreciate being sent to the BSA documentation and being educated on the core policies which seem to address the basics. I will tell you that it is not easy to convey this information especially when adults have already had a set idea of what the rules are and they see things in a different light. People can take offense to the message very quickly, which I wish was not the case. I will also readily admit that I still need more time to study and grasp everything. It would be nice if National would work on something to guide newcomers on these nuances. I did go online and go through the latest "This is Scouting?" and that doesn't address these concepts. I do appreciate the time given me by all of you on this topic. It has helped me.

I know that I read this in one of the posts but I can not find it, now...Can someone please tell me one more time, the order of precedence for the BSA governing documents? Thank you all.

[wagionvigil]

I would also suggest the Sm Conference training and Board of Review Training as I would expect your troop is or will be having issues with these also

http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/TrainingModules.aspx

I believe there is a Committee member training in the e learning section.

Now a couple of things all tour permits must have a Weather Awarness trained person for any outside activity and a First Aid Trained person. ALso Trek Safety is new and will soon be required for most out door activities. Youth Protection must be within the past two years and can be done on line I would make sure allleaders take all the above training and keep it current. ALso Climb on Safely, Safety Afloat And Safe Swim Defense.Many troops around here are Requiring all registered leaders in the Troop to have all this training.There is no excuse anymore as it is all on line.

[smtroop168]

I know that I read this in one of the posts but I can not find it, now...Can someone please tell me one more time, the order of precedence for the BSA governing documents? Thank you all.

BSA Requirements Book 33216
Advancement Procedures 33088

[wagionvigil]

I know that I read this in one of the posts but I can not find it, now...Can someone please tell me one more time, the order of precedence for the BSA governing documents? Thank you all.

BSA Requirements Book 33216
Advancement Procedures 33088

Troop rules Never

[FrankJ]

Now a couple of things all tour permits must have a Weather Awarness trained person for any outside activity and a First Aid Trained person.

I just filed an online tour permit. I saw the requirement for the hazardous weather, but not first aide. (This camp out does not include water or climbing.) Did I miss something?

[wagionvigil]

It is in the writing when it explains that Climb On Safety must be had if going climbing and Safe Swim and Safety Afloat this is above the box. It does not requie that a name be listed only that someone has it.

Activity Standards: Where swimming or boating is included in the program, Safe Swim Defense and/or Safety Afloat standards are to be
followed. If climbing/rappelling is included, then Climb On Safely must be followed. At least one person must be trained in CPR from any
recognized agency for Safety Afloat and Climb On Safely. At least one adult on a pack overnighter must have completed Basic Adult Leader
Outdoor Orientation (BALOO). At least one adult must have completed Planning and Preparing for Hazardous Weather training for all tours.
The listed BSA training is valid for two years.
Expiration date of commitment card/training (two years from completion date)
Name Age Youth
Protection
Planning and Preparing for
Hazardous Weather
BALOO Safe Swim Defense Safety Afloat Paddlecraft Safety Swimming and

[smtroop168]

Where does it say the SM *assigns* a merit badge counselor? "When a Scout has decided on a merit badge he would like to earn, he obtains from his Scoutmaster the name and phone number of the district/council-approved merit badge counselor."

Some interpret "the name" as the SM assigning the counselor.

And as I said earlier.....The purpose of the signature is to ensure the scout understand the process involved in doing a particular MB. As a SM and a District Eagle Coordinator, I view my role as an advisor and ask a scout if they have read the MB requirements and understand any prereqs. I also can help a scout with counselors I know personally that will help them out.

[evmori]

Where does it say the SM *assigns* a merit badge counselor? "When a Scout has decided on a merit badge he would like to earn, he obtains from his Scoutmaster the name and phone number of the district/council-approved merit badge counselor."

You answered you own question.