Merit Badge applications 34124A-Unit Leader signature

[committee member]

Merit Badge applications must be signed in advance by the applicant’s unit leader.
After the Scout's personal information such as name, address, district and council there is the text, "and is qualified to begin working for this merit badge," a line for the unit leaders signature and then, "Date Signature of unit leader." ...

I'm trying to understand the exact reason for the Unit Leader signature. It seems that there is room for interpretation on this one piece and I cannot find anything that addresses it. I read that "Any Boy Scout may earn any merit badge at any time." but that could be in conflict with the fact that the unit leader must sign the "blue card" before a scout may begin. If the unit leader does not agree that the scout is qualified to begin working on this merit badge, what does the scout do? What constitutes "qualified to work on a merit badge?" I want to get information for our unit so we can serve the boys in a uniform and encouraging way, the same way that is done on a national basis. Can experienced leaders and involved Boy Scouters, please advise and help clarify this fine point? Your input will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[wagionvigil]

Welcome to the forum.
Not to throw another road block but the blue cards are not even required. A good source for MB onformation is the BSA MB counselor Training on the BSA Web site
I would like the Cards be required and age restriction or rank restrictions on some MB. WHat it says is any scout can take any MB (unless there is a must have this before this) it does not say they can complete any MB. Taking and completing are very different.



http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/trainingmodules/merit%20badge%20counselor%20instructors%20guide.aspx

[evmori]

No blue cards aren't required.

I think the purpose of the SM signature is so the SM knows what MB's the Scouts in his unit are working on. That plus there are some MB's that may be way above the Scouts head & the SM can help the Scout to understand this & aid in picking another one. It's a case by case determination.

[committee member]

With all due respect, truly, I'm wondering how anyone knows if a merit badge topic is over a scout's head? If he readily agrees, then it might be. However, can you really know every scout that well in all areas of the 121 topics? I'm really not trying to challenge anyone so please don't take it that way.

I was just asked, last night, for advice for a new scout who was selecting his first merit badges for his first camporee. I went through all that were offered and tried to tell the parent the type of work involved in each, if I was familiar with it, and as we went through them, the parent saw some topics that he thought his son would enjoy but he was concerned that they were not Eagle-required. I reminded him that they had to have several others as well and that he wanted his son to have a fun experience on this first troop outing so he was then comfortable (and I think, relieved) going back to his son with the list to let him pick out several choices that the new scout would enjoy.

I have continued to be wonderfully surprised by kids I've worked with in FLL LEGO robotics competitions when they are challenged. I see the ideas, solutions and thought process that they demonstrate. I am told that I have high expectations for them to do the necessary work and to try but when they say that, they usually say it in conjunction with how pleased they are at the outcome. I also see their failures as very big learning opportunities especially since they know that their team mates, parents and I are there for them and I can't tell you how proud I've been about what has been born out of failure...persistence, determination, regrouping, leadership and friendship. I know it doesn't always work that way, but it can.

I realize, I'm not talking about anything that has physical safety concerns. However, I wouldn't stretch a concern for physical safety to say that if a scout worked on Traffic Safety, that he would be inclined to get in a car and try to drive without the required driving permits just because he completed that merit badge, either.

Does this come up often in every troop?

[wagionvigil]

A review of the MB requirements would help.I really suggest that a boy read the MB Pamphlet before taking any merit Badge and review all the requirements.

[FrankJ]

The point of the unit leader signature on the blue card (which actually comes from the scout hand book procedure on earning a merit badge so if you are not using blue cards, the procedure should be functionally the same.) is the SM should be guiding the scout on his advancement trail. If the scout is trying to start a merit badge that he is not ready for them the SM should try guiding him to something else. If the the scout is opening another merit badge every week & clearly is not working on any of them, then the the SM should have a discussion on focus. What the SM should not be doing is using his signature to control the rate of advancement.

[WVBeaver05]

What I hear about (but fortunately don't see often, myself) is Scouters making/enforcing rules that limit or otherwise control the advancement of Scouts (beyond the official requirements). This should never happen - and IMO should be addressed by the BSA.

What I see most often is parents trying to control the advancement of Scouts. I don't support this. I consider it part of the entire process for the Scout to select the MBs, engage the Counselor, complete the work, and receive the award. There are certainly things that the parents can do to support him - but selecting the MB isn't one of them. In fact, I usually limit my discussion of MBs with parents to pretty general information and save the real discussion for the Scout himself. If a parent asks me if I will Counsel "little Johny" in xyz MB, I answer something to the effect that I will be happy to discuss it with him.

Another observation, which I know generates a wide range of opinions, is that I really want my new Scouts working (primarily) on rank advancements. But that's just me.

YiS

[wagionvigil]

When I was a scout you could only take only certain MB's until you made first class. I really like that idea.
My list would be Firsta AId, Swimming,Mammal Study,HandiCraft Series. I Believe Nature Was one that we were allowed at that time.I believe Rank Advancement is more important also.

[evmori]

I went through all that were offered and tried to tell the parent the type of work involved in each, if I was familiar with it, and as we went through them, the parent saw some topics that he thought his son would enjoy but he was concerned that they were not Eagle-required.

Now there is a problem. Mom & dad aren't the ones taking the merit badge, little Johnny is. Little Johnny should be doing the choosing with advice from his Scoutmaster. I'm not saying parent's shouldn't be involved but it should be the Scouts choice not theirs.

[FrankJ]

When a new scout parent comes to me and talks about merit badges for Johnny, I use the opportunity to discuss the goals of the scout program and how merit badges fits into that. There is a lot of misconceptions of what scouting is about & if we do not take the time to educate the parents, it should be no surprise that they do not get it.

The parents learn one of two things.
1) If they want to arrange merit badges for Johnny, I am going to have a philosophical discussion with them so they try talk to somebody else.
2) Johnny comes and talks to me.

[alex gregory]

When I was a scout you could only take only certain MB's until you made first class. I really like that idea.
My list would be Firsta AId, Swimming,Mammal Study,HandiCraft Series. I Believe Nature Was one that we were allowed at that time.I believe Rank Advancement is more important also.

Rank advancement is great. In a decently run program with plenty of opportunities for working on Trail-To-1st-Class it should just happen without a lot of extra effort. Most Scouts in my troop earn 1st Class within a year to 18-mos. after Crossover (usually by second summer camp), which I think is just about right. I hate the idea of artificial obstacles that prevent a Scout from pursuing any MB he may be interested in pursuing. Advancment is up to individual Scouts, and I say let each Scout choose for himself the speed and manner in which he advances (or does not). That said, it makes sense to encourage Scouts to focus on certainj core MBs like First Aid and Swimming, but why prohibit that Scout from working on whatever he chooses for himself?

[cballman]

An example Lifesaving Merit badge I personally dont think a first year crossover scout can handle the merit badge. I will try to get them to take another. I also know that most 3rd to 4th years will struggle with this one also. The reason I choose this one for an example is because I teach this one. But if a child who has just crossed over going by the BSA National Rules can attempt this badge. Can he pass it I dont know but would I try to talk him out of it SURE. Why because most kids that age dont have the strengh and knowledge to pass this one. This is why the SM or ASM needs to talk to each child and get him to understand why. We are also trying to make a positive experiance for each kid. When he fails bad at this badge the first year how will that help him in scouting? This is just one example that I know. There are others but I wont go into the time to pick each badge.

[smtroop168]

Here are some interesting facts from the 1958 Scout Handbook:

Reason for Merit Badges: Two of the reasons for the Scout Merit Badge Plan are (1) to give you more skill in things you like to do; (2) to give you a chance to try out new activities, so that you can find new things which you really like.

First Class Scouts can earn any Merit Badge

Merit Badges for Second Class Scouts: When you are a Second ClassScout, you want to become First Class just as soon as you can....When the effort will not interfere with your progress toward First Class Rank,work dfor Merit BAdges. Second Class Scouts may earn any Merit Badge they wish exceot that in the case of the following subjects the related First Class Scout Scoutcraft requirement must be met first:

Badges listed are Astronomy, Camping, Canoeing, Cooking, First Aid, Lifesaving, Pioneering, Rowing, Signaling, Surveying and Swimming


Tenderfoot Scouts may not qualify for Merit Badges


How to qualify for Merit Badges: "....ask your SM for an application blank. If he feels you are ready, he signs the application...."


The 1972 Scout Handbook (a.k.a. the Skill award days), MBs were required for all ranks. TF - 1; 2nd -3; 1st -5; Star - 9; Life - 15; Eagle 24

[committee member]

Please understand that parents of new scouts ask for all kinds of advice if the scout is not understanding the program and why shouldn't they? Does it mean they are deciding for the Scout? Some probably are and some probably are not. When this parent of a new scout asked me for help in understanding the merit badge choice it was because the troop was attending a camporee where every scout was asked to pick something from a given list. The list was emailed to the parent over spring break when the scouts did not have a meeting and all of this was new to the family. I see nothing wrong in a parent trying to understand the program so they can help their scout give a response to a very general question from the troop. I have no problems with questions. The model of the UL being the sole adviser is great if good advising happens.

I am in favor of the scouts working on advancement but if that option is not offered, I'm also in favor of them working on anything in lieu of wasting their time doing nothing. After others also expressed their concerns, our scouts are finally getting going but we have had scouts who have taken years to get to Tenderfoot or Second Class because their parents trusted the troop to guide them. This all started when we had a change of leadership. Some parents like me (who had no experience with Boy Scouts) asked what we could do to help because our kids were ready to drop out due to boredom and we didn't know what was going on. The kids do get along well and have fun when they do something. There are also some very dedicated and wonderful people working with the scouts but there was a hole. For your reference, I volunteered to help keep track of training and that expanded to training and recruiting merit badge counselors who have practical experience, professions or special interests that could help the scouts. I'm putting this together as a resource for the scouts and I tell all of the counselors that they may or may not be asked to work with a scout in any given year depending on what the scouts want. I take care of the paperwork submission and keep the list current. I am trying to leave the advancement up to other adults and I'm simply doing my part to keep track of training and understand the merit badge process so while it might sound like my only concern is for my son earning merit badges, it is really my focus to provide resources for all of our scouts. I'm not selling merit badges, just making a small contribution to the community. Too often, people assign the idea about others of having a specific agenda before really understanding all of the background so I wanted to give you a little of our background before that happens. I do ask many questions and for some reason that is sometimes taken as challenging someone when it is really meant to find out how things should be done correctly. I appreciate all of the information, answers and perspectives, I've been given and don't wish to create any animosity...just progress.

[wagionvigil]

When I was a scout you could only take only certain MB's until you made first class. I really like that idea.
My list would be Firsta AId, Swimming,Mammal Study,HandiCraft Series. I Believe Nature Was one that we were allowed at that time.I believe Rank Advancement is more important also.

Rank advancement is great. In a decently run program with plenty of opportunities for working on Trail-To-1st-Class it should just happen without a lot of extra effort. Most Scouts in my troop earn 1st Class within a year to 18-mos. after Crossover (usually by second summer camp), which I think is just about right. I hate the idea of artificial obstacles that prevent a Scout from pursuing any MB he may be interested in pursuing. Advancment is up to individual Scouts, and I say let each Scout choose for himself the speed and manner in which he advances (or does not). That said, it makes sense to encourage Scouts to focus on certainj core MBs like First Aid and Swimming, but why prohibit that Scout from working on whatever he chooses for himself?

Alex these were rules in 1960 or so . I have seen a secodn class scout with 15 MB something is wrong when that happens.

[smtroop168]

Please understand that parents of new scouts ask for all kinds of advice if the scout is not understanding the program and why shouldn't they? Does it mean they are deciding for the Scout? Some probably are and some probably are not. When this parent of a new scout asked me for help in understanding the merit badge choice it was because the troop was attending a camporee where every scout was asked to pick something from a given list. The list was emailed to the parent over spring break when the scouts did not have a meeting and all of this was new to the family. I see nothing wrong in a parent trying to understand the program so they can help their scout give a response to a very general question from the troop. I have no problems with questions. The model of the UL being the sole adviser is great if good advising happens.

I am in favor of the scouts working on advancement but if that option is not offered, I'm also in favor of them working on anything in lieu of wasting their time doing nothing. After others also expressed their concerns, our scouts are finally getting going but we have had scouts who have taken years to get to Tenderfoot or Second Class because their parents trusted the troop to guide them. This all started when we had a change of leadership. Some parents like me (who had no experience with Boy Scouts) asked what we could do to help because our kids were ready to drop out due to boredom and we didn't know what was going on. The kids do get along well and have fun when they do something. There are also some very dedicated and wonderful people working with the scouts but there was a hole. For your reference, I volunteered to help keep track of training and that expanded to training and recruiting merit badge counselors who have practical experience, professions or special interests that could help the scouts. I'm putting this together as a resource for the scouts and I tell all of the counselors that they may or may not be asked to work with a scout in any given year depending on what the scouts want. I take care of the paperwork submission and keep the list current. I am trying to leave the advancement up to other adults and I'm simply doing my part to keep track of training and understand the merit badge process so while it might sound like my only concern is for my son earning merit badges, it is really my focus to provide resources for all of our scouts. I'm not selling merit badges, just making a small contribution to the community. Too often, people assign the idea about others of having a specific agenda before really understanding all of the background so I wanted to give you a little of our background before that happens. I do ask many questions and for some reason that is sometimes taken as challenging someone when it is really meant to find out how things should be done correctly. I appreciate all of the information, answers and perspectives, I've been given and don't wish to create any animosity...just progress.

Your actions are great but you don't need to do it on your own. Your Council isn't listed but contact your District Advancement Chair and obtain the latest MBC list. Maybe you can help fill in the badges with no MBCs. Also I would much rather have parents who are interested in the advancement process than the drop and run ones who show no interest.