MB Counselor using an 'old' book

[momma_bee]

A parent, who is registered as a MBC offered to do a merit badge at multiple troop meetings. (Personal Fitness)

She did this at 2-3 meetings last spring. Over the summer, I reviewed BigBee's Scout book and requirement book and decided that she must have only covered rank requirments with our new boys. I based this assumption on the fact that my son did not know he was doing a merit badge, and that he was not told to 'measure/test every two weeks' or to have a physical.

When I talked to this mom, she expressed disappointment that no one turned in a log of their exercise regime to her to complete the BADGE so I reviewed the requirements, pulled out the book and asked her WHICH badge she was talking about. Personal Fitness.

I showed her the requiments, specifically the 'class 1 & 2 medical form FIRST' and she said that she was using the old book the SM gave her.

I don't want to press this issue, but from what I can tell, the SM had an older guidebook and she used it to plan her badge and tell the boys what to do. And that is largely an assumption on my part, since I hate to question these leaders. (don't jump me and remember I am trying NOT to create larger issues w/in the troop)

So, here are my question.

If the MBC uses 'old' requirements, is the badge really earned?

Now, my Scout says no, he should do it all, but I am concerned, especially with this one, about the safety issues. There are two boys who need to have inhalers on hand and the MBC didn't know this and had the boys exercising. If something had gone wrong and one had an asthma attack, their parents weren't at the meeting...

And, I am pleased my Scout said no, but now what does he do? The MBC told me he 'doesn't need to do that stuff' and that isn't the message I want him to get. If I look for a MBC elsewhere, will they accept the requirements BigBee DID do? (and, I don't want this mom upset... we ladies worry too much about that)

And, I have suggested she check out this site, several times.

[evmori]

Actually the log is a requirement. Look at #8.

7.Outline a comprehensive 12-week physical fitness program using the results of your fitness tests. Be sure your program incorporates the endurance, intensity, and warm-up guidelines discussed in the Personal Fitness merit badge pamphlet. Before beginning your exercises, have the program approved by your counselor and parents.

8.Complete the physical fitness program you outlined in requirement 7. Keep a log of your fitness program activity (how long you exercised; how far you ran, swam, or biked; how many exercise repetitions you completed; your exercise heart rate; etc.). Repeat the aerobic fitness, muscular strength, and flexibility tests every two weeks and record your results. After the 12th week, repeat all four tests, record your results, and show improvement in each one. Compare and analyze your preprogram and postprogram body composition measurements. Discuss the meaning and benefit of your experience.

[momma_bee]

I knew the log was a requirement for the badge, I thought she was only doing rank until she asked about BigBee's and used the word badge.

Of course, I have probably messed up the rank requirements too...


She said they didn't need to test every two weeks, only beginning and end. And, since they have been tested twice (initial test and one that was about 3 months later - I thought it had been two months but she said I was wrong) all they need to do is turn in the log.

The boys SHOULD have the book, but she just told them to track when they exercise, not to create an exercise plan and not to test themselves. And, if they exercise NOW, the test they took in May isn't really going to show the results of the exercise.

I know that I didn't approve an exercise plan for BigBee and he doesn't have any papers showing that he made one at a troop meeting.

But, she is willing to sign the badge after she gets a 12 week log. I swear she said 6 week last spring, that was one of the things that was throwing me off. But, with nothing in writting, I must be remembering wrong.

Her reasoning is that she did what was in the pamphlet the SM gave her.

(confidentally, I told BigBee he had to take a merit badge that is offered by our districts advancement chair - that should show BigBee it can been done, and done right)

edited to make sure I cleared up that I KNEW the log was required, it was the way she asked for it that told me she was thinking badge, not rank. And, I have toyed with offering/arrageing MBC training, but things don't soak in with this crew.

[ASM-142]

The scout needs to use the requirements that are current when they start the MB. If a MBC is using outdated requirements that is a problem.

[Lynda J]

If a scout began working on a badge under the old requirements he may complete the badge using those requirements. Or he can begin again using the new requirements but he can not mix the requirements.

Once new requirements come out all efforts should be made to make sure the boys do the newest requirements.

[evmori]

If a scout began working on a badge under the old requirements he may complete the badge using those requirements. Or he can begin again using the new requirements but he can not mix the requirements.

Once new requirements come out all efforts should be made to make sure the boys do the newest requirements.

True, providing the requirements were valid when the badge was started. If the counselor is using a book from say 1999 and the requirements changed in 2002 and the Scout started the MB in 2005, then the old requirements don't even apply! The new book MUST be used.

[ASM-142]

If a scout began working on a badge under the old requirements he may complete the badge using those requirements. Or he can begin again using the new requirements but he can not mix the requirements.

Once new requirements come out all efforts should be made to make sure the boys do the newest requirements.

True, providing the requirements were valid when the badge was started. If the counselor is using a book from say 1999 and the requirements changed in 2002 and the Scout started the MB in 2005, then the old requirements don't even apply! The new book MUST be used.

Agree

[momma_bee]

That is what I was thinking - with a smidge of latitude on the need to complete requirment #1 first. They have completed the nutrition parts already and I'd hate to ask them to do them again. They are still 11 yo boys, it is still boring and it wasn't their fault she didn't wait for the form.

I don't know if I can make the other boys do it if she signs off. The SM should take this on, not me. I can talk to my Scout about it.

And, I have noticed that no one said 'oh, yeah, that just changed' so I think I make sure she knows how to know what date should be on the pamphlet and remind her to use the requirements in her son's book, not the pamphlet. I am wondering if it was an old book or if she just didn't retain the requirements when she told the boys what to do.

[BM_Crawford]

A similar thing happened in my troop. A lady decided to teach an eagle badge with a 60's book. She didn't speak to any of the ASM's or the SM just put in papers for people who wanted to take it. She hadn't even been accepted by council yet and was planning on starting saying she would finish personal fitness in a few weeks.

Luckily the committee was in the office saw the paper and removed all of them before she had a chance to do this.

The reason she did this we found out was because she wanted to find an easy way to get her son an eagle badge

[EagleBoy62204]

As a merit badge councilor, i was told by the dean of advancement for my district, that the only way a scout can use the old requirements, is if and only if the blue card was issued to the scout before the requirements were changed.

Say a scout was doing Computers, and while he was working on the badge, the requirements changed, adding requirements and taking some out. Since he needs a blue card to start the badge with the councilor he has the option of using the new requirements, or continuing with the old ones.

Thats what i have been told and do with my students who take the badges with me. I also make sure they go out and check for any updates that im not aware of on the badges.

[Scholarch]

The folks at meritbadge.com need to get their act together in regards to updating the Environmental Science requirements.

I started teaching Environmental Science under the the previous requirements early this year. The Scouts are just about finished but usscouts.org has posted the 2006 requirements and meritbadge.com has not. Our troop usually relies on meritbadge.com when we do not have a requirements book handy. I hadn't checked usscouts.org until the Scouts recently finished the experiments and observations under the old requirements.

Rather than whine about it and force our troop to start over and buy new merit badge books, I'm slightly backdating the blue card issuance date to 12/31/05 so their earning the merit badge can never come into question.

There should honestly be a several months' grace period for requirement changes, especially when a NESA-supported research site cannot keep itself updated. I don't see slight backdating as wrong, frivolous, or disenfranchising when requirements differ on two mainstream sites. Both myself and the Scouts trusted meritbadge.com to be trustworthy in giving the updated requirements so although my actions are technically wrong they are trustworthy in intentions.

I can understand if people disagree on my decision but let's fix meritbadge.com first and discuss later.

http://www.meritbadge.com/mb/007.htm
http://www.usscouts.org/mb/mb007.html

[ASM-142]

The folks at meritbadge.com need to get their act together in regards to updating the Environmental Science requirements.

I started teaching Environmental Science under the the previous requirements early this year. The Scouts are just about finished but usscouts.org has posted the 2006 requirements and meritbadge.com has not. Our troop usually relies on meritbadge.com when we do not have a requirements book handy. I hadn't checked usscouts.org until the Scouts recently finished the experiments and observations under the old requirements.

Rather than whine about it and force our troop to start over and buy new merit badge books, I'm slightly backdating the blue card issuance date to 12/31/05 so their earning the merit badge can never come into question.

There should honestly be a several months' grace period for requirement changes, especially when a NESA-supported research site cannot keep itself updated. I don't see slight backdating as wrong, frivolous, or disenfranchising when requirements differ on two mainstream sites. Both myself and the Scouts trusted meritbadge.com to be trustworthy in giving the updated requirements so although my actions are technically wrong they are trustworthy in intentions.

I can understand if people disagree on my decision but let's fix meritbadge.com first and discuss later.

http://www.meritbadge.com/mb/007.htm
http://www.usscouts.org/mb/mb007.html

Once a scout starts a MB with a set of requirements he can continue using those requirements until completion. If he decides to use the new requirements then he must use all the new requirements.

[FrankJ]

Our local Scout shop didn't have the 2006 requirements book until Feb. So it is understandable there is a little lag time in getting volunteer supported sites updated. Thanks to all involved in supported the sites. My hats off to you.

[Scholarch]

That's a good point. If the local scout shop doesn't even get updated requirements books until February then the "effective January 1, 2006" must by necessity be subjective.

I had planned on starting Environmental Science in January and February with what are now the old requirements. Flexibility (a Wood Badge concept) must be used as well as thrift since we had exactly enough merit badge books to teach the class.

No counselor or Scout should ever be reprimanded because updated requirements are not yet accessible both online and in print. Slight backdating of blue card issuance to compensate for belated updating. Makes sense.

[wagionvigil]

Remember the new requirements are always in Scouting Magazine and councilsare also notified of upcoming changes

[ASM-142]

... Slight backdating of blue card issuance to compensate for belated updating. ...

Where does this fit into the Scout Oath and Law?

[Mrw]

I am a bit confused here. Why back-date the cards? The blue card certifies the MBC has tested the boy in question and that the boy has completed the requirements for the badge. Nowhere does the blue card or advancement report list specifically which version of the requirements were used. I don't see how there would be an issue with just dating the cards for when the badges were completed. If it were old requirements because the new ones were not available to you yet, how does this make a difference?

I know some places do things differently, but our blue cards go into a box in the closet after they are recorded on the Advancement report for Council and they are never looked at again. The actual cards have not gone downtown for several years.

[Scholarch]

Unfortunately, there is one adult in my troop who gets upset about requirements because his son is the only one with, ahem, Scout Spirit issues. He got upset about his son taking Personal Fitness and not wanting to do the three month requirements. Another adult leader has had issues with him. My Scoutmaster designated another MBC for the guy's son per my request but I honestly think he's the exact type who'd be "hey look, you taught a merit badge with outdated requirements - were you even qualified to teach my son Personal Fitness?" I avoid the guy and try to help those who want to advance advance, no questions asked about outdated technicalities.

Still, if you issue "effective 1/1/06" revisions late then that does not guarantee "dead time" for Scouts to "wait" on revisions before doing the badge.

Trustworthy - I should say backdating when they had attempted one hour of observation prior a long time ago and the MB subsequently fell apart. Since I can't remember the date I used 12/31/05 for the date the card was issued, reflecting their earlier attempt. No requirements (past and present) were mixed but I am honoring the previous attempt through the issue date. Forgive me, I should have mentioned this in the previous post.

Thrifty - knowing aforementioned, why buy new merit badge books when you've begun (or restarted) teaching with the old ones not knowing of new requirements currently not available?

Helpful / Courteous / Kind - I'm backdating this card so a fellow Scout's dad doesn't cause a ruckus and attempt to have Scouts take this badge over just to spite the counselor and vindicate his kid.

Honestly, I'm tired of this drama. A few guys have benefitted greatly because they work hard while the one who doesn't accomplishes only behavioral obstruction at every single meeting. I may just quit the MBC and Scout leader thing soon. The ones I've helped are guaranteed to get Eagle if they do the project and remaining merit badges. For the troop that helped me get Eagle, I've helped several more under bad circumstances. I've done my job.

[cballman]

something was said in an earlier post about meritbadge .com getting it together and posting new requirements and having everything updated as soon as possible. well heres your answer the person who owns the meritbadge.com has a real job and life. the moderators have been ok by this person to help keep this board nice ,clean, and fun. they also have real jobs and lives. this board is run on a volunter basis. the people who assist with this board are not paid to keep this board and requirements 100% updated like the National BSA is. we do this to help out others by giving a little back. just think about how much you have paid for each merit badge worksheets that you have printed out? if you havent paid for anything just complained then I beleive that you owe the man that runs this board and pays for the web address a very big apology. he has done us a large favor for these worksheets, it has taken up countless hours to keep this .com running. So in the future when anybody wants to complain about something EITHER shut up or rewrite the requirements and worksheets so that they can be made for all to use.

[PaulSWolf]

Charlie,

I, for one, am fully aware of how much effort goes into keeping this site up to date, and fully sympathize with Mike. If there is anything I or others at the USSSP (usscouts.org) can do to help him get the site current, we'll be glad to do so.

In the meantime, of course, Scouts and Scouters can and should use the information on my site at http://usscouts.org/advancementTOC.asp since it is up to date with all the newest requirements, and most (but not all) of the worksheets.

We actually have two sets of worksheets there, one done by Rob Greenland, who also supplies the worksheets for this site, and a second set by Craig Lincoln. Craig's set is complete for 2006, while Rob is still working on his set (He has worksheets for 17 badges still to complete.)