Written requirements?

[wagionvigil]

I really do not see a gray area in a Discuss requirement because it says discuss with your counselor____ SO how do we decide what fits? Simple, does it say Write with your counselor?No It says discuss and regardless as to what you wrote in a definition in school if I ask a student to come prepared to discuss it means talk or to vocalize. If I want a student to discuss in writing then the words in writing are used.Every educator in the country will probably agree with this. Only a parent or a scout looking for a loophole would try to say well discuss also means to write. Now if a scout has a speech problem we would work around that but I would still get them to talk it through as the best they could.The same would go with a writing requirement if a scout as a disability that they cannot write we would work through it but they would still have to write something for me.Writing everything opens up the possibility that Mom or Dad or someone else wrote the paper and not the scout.Discussion leaves this factor out of it.The Home schooled students I have dealt with hate to vocalize and discuss as they write everything and have no real interaction verbally with anyone outside their little bubble.

[kwildman]

I think it is good to challenge the kids and get them out of their comfort zone. We are developing young men and by giving them challenges to overcome we make them stronger. I don't think requiring a written discussion is unfair...grading for grammar or punctuation would be.

I typically use the MB worksheets and ask the kids to provide the definitions or answers in their own words. This greatly speeds up the review process as I can determine if the scout gets it and when i meet with the scout they use their worksheets to aid in the verbal discussion. Typically, if they did a good job on a section I tell them so and we move on to the next section unless they have questions. This allows me to focus verbal discussions towards the concepts that they are having problems with.

The other reason I require written work on the worksheets is because I am the ASM with unit and a MBC for several eagle required badges such as camping, environmental science, hiking, and E-prep. I keep copies of each scouts worksheets in case it is ever questioned whether or not the scouts actually completed the requirements.

I have not had any scouts question me when i ask them to complete the worksheets and i know that some of them like using them because they help them prepare for the verbal discussions. I think if someone was adamant about not wanting to write anything for a "discussion" requirement i would just let them discuss it but that hasn't happened to me yet.

[Mrw]

Worksheets are a great tool, but I defy you to show me a merit badge requirement anywhere that says "fill out a worksheet."

[wagionvigil]

Worksheets are a great tool, but I defy you to show me a merit badge requirement anywhere that says "fill out a worksheet."

But is it up to the MBC to"teach"everything the scout needs to know about the MB? No! It is the scouts Responsibility to have some working knowledge of the merit badge they are trying to complete.How they get that can be suggested by the MBC.Read the MBP ,Do the worksheet. Whatever.I have major issues when a scout comes for climbing merit badge and Knows Nothing.NO terminology,no equipment nothing but yet mom and dad and in most cases the troop leadership did nothing to prepare the scout for what can be a dangerous mb. All BSA MUST DO is make the First Requirement READ THE MERIT BADGE PAMPHLET It will be up to the MBC how to verify this "A Scout IS Trustworthy"does not apply in this case because not only will the scout lie so will everyone else in the process. I have seen scout leaders put wrong Birthdates on Release forms so a scou could take part in an activity.

[Mrw]

Worksheets are a great tool, but I defy you to show me a merit badge requirement anywhere that says "fill out a worksheet."

But is it up to the MBC to"teach"everything the scout needs to know about the MB? No! It is the scouts Responsibility to have some working knowledge of the merit badge they are trying to complete.How they get that can be suggested by the MBC.Read the MBP ,Do the worksheet. Whatever.I have major issues when a scout comes for climbing merit badge and Knows Nothing.NO terminology,no equipment nothing but yet mom and dad and in most cases the troop leadership did nothing to prepare the scout for what can be a dangerous mb. All BSA MUST DO is make the First Requirement READ THE MERIT BADGE PAMPHLET It will be up to the MBC how to verify this "A Scout IS Trustworthy"does not apply in this case because not only will the scout lie so will everyone else in the process. I have seen scout leaders put wrong Birthdates on Release forms so a scou could take part in an activity.

I won't argue with you on this one. I always told my kids to read their books. And we tell our scouts in the troop that the first thing they need to do on a badge is get the book as all the basics are in there. And that the couselors are there to help them learn what they need to know to earn the badge. I just will argue with someone who requires worksheets.

[wagionvigil]

You are a rarity. How does the MBC know if the scout knows anything without using some standard be it worksheets or some other way?

[kwildman]

I have told the scouts to go back and READ the merit badge book when they cant Discuss required material. They must demonstrate knowledge or the ability to complete the requirement to get it signed off. They dont do the work they dont get the badge.

[cballman]

MRW you are right as a merit badge counsler I CANNOT require a child to use the worksheets and I dont. BUT I also tell the child that the worksheets is a tool that would help keep them informed as to what requirements they have finished. Like I also tell all other parents they dont have to use it but it does keep everything together and neat for the child. The requirements also dont say that they have to have pen and paper but if you read the requirements then it depends on how you understand them. Now to play the devil again. At a merit badge class that your teaching there are no set rules for breaks or time either, somethings are just understood. I just want the KIDS to do the requirements not the parents. It makes for a much better class.

[Cowboy]

To continue my assertation that written is in writing and discussion is verbal: If you read the requirements for the Scholarship MB you will find that BSA does distinguish between the two types of informational exchange. This MB very clearly and concisely requires both a discussion and a written paper. No question, no either/or, no ambiguity. It very clearly specifies the use of both types of informational exchange. For those who still feel that they are interchangable I would then question requirement #2 of the same MB. Does the visit mean that you can look at it on the internet? Does the interview mean that you can read an autobiography? Techically those two actions would exchange the same information right?

[RWSmith]

Oh, good grief!
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Cowboy,

Listen, go back and read the posts, carefully... It appears the only person arguing with you is you. Please, ease up a little bit and watch your tone; it's often a bit adversarial. Relax; get to know the various personalities on this board and try to ease into it here. You'll have more fun that way.

Thanks, Buck-a-roo!

[AquilaNegra2]

All BSA MUST DO is make the First Requirement READ THE MERIT BADGE PAMPHLET

How do we get this implemented? With few exceptions (yes, there are a few), the MB pamphlets are concise, balanced, and well-written.

~signed, parent of homeschoolers who would MUCH prefer to discuss something than write it

[evmori]

All BSA MUST DO is make the First Requirement READ THE MERIT BADGE PAMPHLET

How do we get this implemented? With few exceptions (yes, there are a few), the MB pamphlets are concise, balanced, and well-written.

~signed, parent of homeschoolers who would MUCH prefer to discuss something than write it

I'm not sure that forcing a Scout to read the MB pamphlet is necessary. The MB pamphlet is a resource that is available to use.

[FrankJ]

The merit badge pamphlet is useful to help interpret what the requirement really means. While a well prepared scout can get by without it, but most would find it easier with the book. Generally when a scout (or parent) disagrees with my interpretation, I tell them to go read the book.

[wagionvigil]

Ed Yes it is a Resource BUT We must get some way to get these scouts to have an idea as to what they are getting into. WHen I hold up a Large D Biner and they say It is a clippy thing I want to take it and hit the SM in the head as he brought unprepared scouts or ask them to tie a double Fishermans knot and you get the deer in head light look even though the SM was told they were responsible to teach the knots and were given the resources necessary to do that. Even a web site with knot videos that you can do step by step. The SM usually think its a joke you can tell by looking at them. SO make it a requirement Read the Pamphlet.

[smtroop168]

How do we get this implemented? With few exceptions (yes, there are a few), the MB pamphlets are concise, balanced, and well-written.

As soon as the BSA requires Training, Blue Cards and Uniforms, I'm sure they'll be all over this one.

[cballman]

First thing is to let the parents who are the main culprits understand how much easier it would be to read the pamphlet. Second thing is to also let the parents understand what a good tool the worksheets are and how they keep everything together. Third we need to get Scoutmasters and other leaders to understand how the merit badge program works. Lastly we need to get rid of the people who want to nitpick every single requirement and try to make it so easy for little johnny so he dont have to do anything. Just my opinion and I will stand by it until I retire.

[smtroop168]

First thing is to let the parents who are the main culprits understand how much easier it would be to read the pamphlet. Second thing is to also let the parents understand what a good tool the worksheets are and how they keep everything together. Third we need to get Scoutmasters and other leaders to understand how the merit badge program works. Lastly we need to get rid of the people who want to nitpick every single requirement and try to make it so easy for little johnny so he dont have to do anything. Just my opinion and I will stand by it until I retire.

Amen! I have told many scouts that they should print off all the Eagle Rqd MB worksheets and set up a binder with a tab for each. That way they have a workbook to work on or keep track of other requirements they might have done in school or on troop/class/family trips before they forget. For example...Cit in Nation trips to historic spots, Camping days/nights, family life chores, Communications speech to a group etc. If they have the pamphlet you would be amazed how much they can get done on the worksheet. This has been a successful approach for our last two Eagles and a number in the pipeline are using it as well.

[AquilaNegra2]

Amen! I have told many scouts that they should print off all the Eagle Rqd MB worksheets and set up a binder with a tab for each. That way they have a workbook to work on or keep track of other requirements they might have done in school or on troop/class/family trips before they forget. For example...Cit in Nation trips to historic spots, Camping days/nights, family life chores, Communications speech to a group etc. If they have the pamphlet you would be amazed how much they can get done on the worksheet. This has been a successful approach for our last two Eagles and a number in the pipeline are using it as well.

Great idea!

[evmori]

Ed Yes it is a Resource BUT We must get some way to get these scouts to have an idea as to what they are getting into. WHen I hold up a Large D Biner and they say It is a clippy thing I want to take it and hit the SM in the head as he brought unprepared scouts or ask them to tie a double Fishermans knot and you get the deer in head light look even though the SM was told they were responsible to teach the knots and were given the resources necessary to do that. Even a web site with knot videos that you can do step by step. The SM usually think its a joke you can tell by looking at them. SO make it a requirement Read the Pamphlet.

I agree wagon, but forcing a Scout to read a MB pamphlet isn't the answer.

[wagionvigil]

Ed Yes it is a Resource BUT We must get some way to get these scouts to have an idea as to what they are getting into. WHen I hold up a Large D Biner and they say It is a clippy thing I want to take it and hit the SM in the head as he brought unprepared scouts or ask them to tie a double Fishermans knot and you get the deer in head light look even though the SM was told they were responsible to teach the knots and were given the resources necessary to do that. Even a web site with knot videos that you can do step by step. The SM usually think its a joke you can tell by looking at them. SO make it a requirement Read the Pamphlet.

I agree wagion, but forcing a Scout to read a MB pamphlet isn't the answer.

ED You have a better Way?