MB Counselor grief from parents. This is a long first post.

[WVBeaver05]

I've come to find out that the vast majority of concerned parents actually appreciate some consistency and chronological elements in the teaching of this MB.

IMO, what the parents appreciate is irrelevant. I don't counsel MBs for parents, but for Scouts.

I also don't add Scouts to a MB becase the parent asked. It is up to the Scout to contact the MBC. (And, yes, I have annoyed a couple of parents with this.)

YiS

[Mrw]

So, you're allowing previous experience to be counted toward a MB before the formal beginning of a MB? Before the Blue Card has been filled out?
It's my understanding that this is wrong. I'm not saying I disagree with you, just what I learned in training.

There have been many long discussions here regarding this. But when you consider that the blue card itself is NOT required to be used, it becomes a moot point.

An example of why requiring a signed blue card before anything counts is silly: Little Joey signs up for a graphic arts class in school. Halfway through, he realizes they will do all the merit badge requirements and most of the photography ones as well. Most of them have been completed by the time he realizes this. As the counselor he then calls, do you make him go back and redo all these things?

[wagionvigil]

OK you can continue to do what you are doing as far as "in order". But if a parent challenges what you are doing to someone, you do not have a leg to stand on. Remember you are approved by your council and they at any time can remove you from a MBC list.
Blue Cards are Not required to start a MB. I know there a lot of councils that do not even request them anymore all they want is the advancement report. The troop keeps one part the boy another and the counselor they last part.
AS far as ,ixing requirements? That is never done. When requirements change you can finish under the requirements you started with or start over with the new requirements. Once requirements change everyone must start with those requirements. It is easy to find out when each MB changed requirements at scouting.org

[TopangaScouter]

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[wagionvigil]

From the BSA Merit Badge Counselor Training Unit on scouting.org
Most local councils (including summer camps) use the Application for Merit Badge, or blue card, although it is not required. This tool just makes the recordkeeping easier for the Scout, the merit badge counselor, and the unit leader. At summer camp, a Scout may receive partial credit for completion of a merit badge on the blue card, which goes to the Scoutmaster at week's end. Back home, the Scout would need to contact a merit badge counselor for assistance with completing the rest of the requirements.

[Quailman]

When you say say switch to the new reqs, how do you go about that?
Do you start over from the beginning? If not then that would seem to me "mixing and matching".

In most cases when the requirements "change", it is just a few, or one or two. Anything that didn't change and was completed already would still count. If there was a complete rewrite, then the boy (it's up to the scout) would likely chose to stick with the requirements he's started with.

[smtroop168]

My point earlier was to show you can't add to the requirements. Obvious to most people is that the service project should be done on a campout but the requirement doesn't say so.

It's been in the forum before but as long as a requirement for a rank or MB has been completed while the boy was a Boy Scout and verified with credible evidence (teacher etc) it can count for the requirement and the MBC or SM should accept this. The MBC is certainly within their job to satisfy themselves that the requirement is met by asking the scout about what they did.

There will always be what I called in my active duty Navy days, "Sea Lawyers" who will push the envelope at every chance they get. As long as you keep the integrity of the advancement program and remain flexible when working with 11-18 year olds, everything will fall into place. The worse thing that can happen is that scouts don't want to come to you for help.

Again welcome to the forum, aren't you glad you joined.

[scubascout]

[quote]In our troop we use lifesaving and swimming as prerequisites to canoing. Is it a hard and fast rule?
No.
Is it a good idea?
Sure.
[/quote]

Just a question, not to start anything, isn't that adding to the requirments?

Thanks

[TopangaScouter]

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[wagionvigil]

TS you wanted proof that bluecards were not required I gave you that. I did not interpret that. It is a hard fact.I do not interpret anything. I read and do what it says. I have been in scouting for over 50 years and in my experience the worst thing you can do is over engineer the program. When you do that it no longer is fun and that is what the program is supposed to be fun. I have said this before and you may not have seen it. It is the journey not the destination. I told you before welcome and we really do mean it.

[evmori]

I'm with WVBeaver05 on the parent issue! It isn't their MB! What they think is irrelevant!

Technically, forcing a Scout to do the camping MB requirements in order is adding to the requirements and is not allowed.

[TopangaScouter]

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[wagionvigil]

You can do them in any order you choose BUT you cannot force the boys to do them in order. By doing that you are adding to the requirements.

[maricopasem]

Is there anyone here who's going to tell me that the reqs appear in random order with no rhyme or reason to their placement?

I think that in the vast majority of cases it simply doesn't matter.

Why would I require a Scout working on Citizenship in the Community to do:

5. With the approval of your counselor and a parent, watch a movie that shows how the actions of one individual or group of individuals can have a positive effect on a community. Discuss with your counselor what you learned from the movie about what it means to be a valuable and concerned member of the community.

before he does:

6. List some of the services (such as the library, recreation center, public transportation, and public safety) your community provides that are funded by taxpayers. Tell your counselor why these services are important to your community.

That doesn't make any sense.

[Mrw]

I think part of my issue with all this is the concept of the troop merit badge teaching. Our boys do a badge together at their own paces and plan their own way through, rather than have it taught to them.

Yes, they go to classes at summer camp, but the "on their own" ones are where they learn to read the book and work out the answers on their own or with the counselor to guide them if they get stuck.

Yes, it does make sense to go through the requirements in order when you are reviewing a badge with a boy or maybe even in a "class" type setting. But it bothers me that you want to insist they are done that way and that the other boys cannot start their badge by helping with the conservation project.

Keeping the parents happy and involved is a worthy goal, but be willing to see their views and learn from them too.

[TopangaScouter]

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[scubascout]

[quote]How 'bout them Dodgers?
[/quote]

baseball season is over and wagionvigil, I waiting for you to sum up this whole topic and then lock it

Thanks

[maricopasem]

How many different ways can we make the same statement?

Maybe a fair wording of the statement is A Merit Badge Counselor abiding by the policies and procedures of the BSA will not require that a Merit Badge's requirements be completed in any particiular order unless specified in the requirements.

[wagionvigil]

I am not going to lock it. I am interested in seeing what happens. There is always someone that wants to stir the pot
I am also interested in seeing what our youth think about this since you are the ones that would be affected.
By the way I am against Troop MB Counselors. My boys always had to go elsewhere for theirs including all the MB I do.Aquatics MB they did at the district swims in the winter and climbing was done at scout camp. IN 18years I cannot remember ever signing off on a MB for a Boy in my troop.

[TopangaScouter]

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