Out of council Merit Badge Days

[kwildman]

ok but i think that interpretation is stretching the SMs responsibility.

There is a difference between giving a name off of a list and implying that SM is responsible for approving which MBC is used. Those requirements were written to explain in general how the process works.

[smtroop168]

I agree with you and this has been discussed elsewhere on the forum and is listed under the MB section on the site. The wording says "the" counselor vice "a" counselor.

Look at Board index/Boy Scout Advancement/General Advancement Info/Merit Badge FAQ

[cballman]

Even though Blue Cards are not required we use them. I dont have one handy but in all honesty I think they way it works is that a child has to have a scoutmaster aprovel before he starts a badge. Even if blue cards are not used. Now the Scoutmaster can defer his signature over to another leader of his choice. Which happens when the scoutmaster cannot make it to summer and a child loses his card. But when another leader signs the card giving his ok I think it must have the blessing of the scoutmaster if not then I dont know what should happen then. That is a question that needs to be answered by someone of higher authority. But to have another scoutmaster sign other than yours would show to me that a scout AND his family might not be as TRUSTWORTHY as I would hope one of my scouts would be,

[smtroop168]

I think they way it works is that a child has to have a scoutmaster aprovel before he starts a badge.

Not really. The most notable example is Camping MB. His 1st campout as scout counts toward Camping MB and I guarantee the scout doesn't have a Blue Card and probably doesn't even know what one is yet.

[cballman]

But that might be a troop rule that states that to start the camping MB then it automaticly approved by the scoutmaster.

[Mrw]

We have discussed this multiple times.

If a boy has completed some or all the tasks for a merit badge before asking for a blue card, he should not have to re-do them on the whim of some adult just because the boy did not ask for a signature before doing them!!!!!!

I think the only time the signed card to signify a start date comes into play is if the merit badge requirements have changed and the boy wants to complete the badge using the old requirements. In that case, proof in the existence of a partial blue card would be a pretty necessary justification.

[alex gregory]

We have discussed this multiple times.

If a boy has completed some or all the tasks for a merit badge before asking for a blue card, he should not have to re-do them on the whim of some adult just because the boy did not ask for a signature before doing them!!!!!!

Ahhh, the soothing sound of a voice of reason.

Come on guys, get off the power trip and give the scout credit for what he has accomplished.

[cballman]

The voice of reason sounds great. Now look at what was said a scout had a blue card signed by another scoutmaster that was not his scoutmaster for permission to take a merit badge. what do you do when he brings you the blue card for the merit badge? Common sense prevails in all but to use another scoutmaster just for a blue card for a merit badge and not asking someone in your troop then I would question that and call someone to find out if that would be a legal blue card for the merit badge? I have problems when common sense is not used. For a scenerio if your son came to me to get a blue card signed to take a merit badge and I signed it saying it was ok, Then what would his scoutmaster say when he brought him the completed blue card for that merit badge?

[wagionvigil]

None of this means anything as Blue Cards are Not Required

[Bill Pitcher]

Along these lines: One year we had a small contingent going to Summer Camp, so we combined with another unit to fill the camp site. A scout needed a signed blue card fore a MB and his SM couldn't be there for 2 days (work related). The SM from the other troop signed the card and the boy got the MB. Blue cards, though not required, were the ticket into the MB class. So, what's the big deal if it isn't the boy's SM from his troop who signs the card? The card says "Unit Leader" which we interpret as an ASM, an Advancement person, even the CC, or as in this case, a Unit Leader fron another troop who was there and ready to help the scout!!!

[wagionvigil]

It never ceases to amaze me how many leaders try to put road blocks in ther Kids way. Can you say Power Trip?

[kwildman]

Along these lines: One year we had a small contingent going to Summer Camp, so we combined with another unit to fill the camp site. A scout needed a signed blue card fore a MB and his SM couldn't be there for 2 days (work related). The SM from the other troop signed the card and the boy got the MB. Blue cards, though not required, were the ticket into the MB class. So, what's the big deal if it isn't the boy's SM from his troop who signs the card? The card says "Unit Leader" which we interpret as an ASM, an Advancement person, even the CC, or as in this case, a Unit Leader fron another troop who was there and ready to help the scout!!!

I dont see a big problem with this. What about provisional campers? They are getting their blue cards signed by the provisional SM.

[ThunderingWind]

And all fo this would go away if the National would step up and change the requirements just a little.

1) REQUIRE all MBCs to take an MBC class (on-line or in person) even if they are already a registered adult in a unit or some other position
2) REQUIRE the use of the blue cards as a tracking method
3) REQUIRE a Unit Designated person to guide the youth to an MBC from the COUNCIL APPROVED LIST. Not one the list - does not count.
4) REQUIRE that all MB Days (or whatever name used) meet a Nationally set guide - No one day and done unless the
MB can actually be done in 6-8 hours. And this means done within proven limits of the requirements.
5) No other unit leader may sign the card (no Troop 1 signature on Troop 2 cards) unless pre-approved in writting by the CE or disignated person (covers MB Days and provisional summer camp)
6) No cross Council MBCs or MB Days unless there is a Memorandum of Agreement between the Councils and the Troops wanting to attend seek permission from their Council to cross boaders
7) So that each boy understands the proper procedure - NO MERIT BADGE work starts/counts without the proper signature on the Blue card. The only exception is the tracking of camping days and nights for the Camping MB (this is already a common practice - couting camping days that is).
Violations of rules should be made punishable. I prefer fines and lose of permission to work with the youth for so many meetings or months depending on the rule broken.
9) Make the changes and tell every one that these are it, if you do not like it, be a youth leader in another youth organization.

Bottom line - codify the rules and policies with penalties to the violating adults, show the youth the rules, even go so far as having the rules be part of the lower ranks testing.

OK....so maybe the above is a little rough on the edges and maybe a little too harsh. But you get the point. We can do better with regards to the process of handling the MB process.

We have to find a way to do better. No Scout should be left behind because of the stupidity of the adult leadership regardless of what level they serve.

[alex gregory]

Wow, first there was the Soup Nazi and now we have "NO MERIT BADGE FOR YOU!"

[Mrw]

Pretty much all of the merit badge days our boys have gone to have required pre-requisites for the badges to be taken.

They serve more as an easy access to multiple counselors time than an instruction time for badges that were not already in the works.

I will have to agree to disagree with you about strict rules and punishments for earning merit badges Thunder. Better training about not adding to or taking away from the requirements would be good. Training for other adults so they get it through their thick skulls that earning badges does not require a certain rank or need to be done in any particular order would be good.

The rest of your rules are a bit over the top in being over-bearing and throwing road-blocks in front of kids.

[wagionvigil]

TW is not off all the way He has some very good ideas that do need refined. BSA allows loop holes Eliminate them. Get rid of leaders that try to hinder a youths advancement. Eliminate any MB counselor that hands out Merit Badges. Meet the Requirements or else. Make the First Requirement for All MB's Read the APpropriate MB Pamphlet for the MB you are taking. DO not allow Troop only counselors,either work for any boy or none. I am against troops that have all their Counselors in house to easy to tweak the requirements to either Pass them on or hinder advancement.

[smtroop168]

http://www.keystonebsa.org/registration ... Key=431450


This is the link to the MB College I'm running....any feedback?

[RWSmith]

7) So that each boy understands the proper procedure - NO MERIT BADGE work starts/counts without the proper signature on the Blue card. The only exception is the tracking of camping days and nights for the Camping MB (this is already a common practice - couting camping days that is).

For, now, I'm just going to respond to this one... Counting days/nights for the Camping MB is NOT the only exception and, unfortunately, it's also not even common practice. It is, nonetheless, the CORRECT practice.

UNLESS SPECIFFICALLY ADDRESSED WITHIN THE REQUIREMENT(S), the only difference between accomplishing a MB Requirement and earning a MB Requirement is the date the Scout joined Boy Scouting. Period. No more; no less. Do a Search here and you'll find this asked and answered before, a few times.

------------------------------------

P.S. That does not mean a Scout (or his parents) should intentionally do an End Run around the SM... That's another subject alltogether.

[ThunderingWind]

For, now, I'm just going to respond to this one... Counting days/nights for the Camping MB is NOT the only exception and, unfortunately, it's also not even common practice. It is, nonetheless, the CORRECT practice.

Allow me to rephase...It is the only exception that I put in my list of changes and the only MB i can see where it would be practical to start counting the day the boy joins without having to go through a formal process to get the Blue Card. This is the Blue Card I would make mandatory in all of Scoutdom for the earning of a merit Badge.

UNLESS SPECIFFICALLY ADDRESSED WITHIN THE REQUIREMENT(S), the only difference between accomplishing a MB Requirement and earning a MB Requirement is the date the Scout joined Boy Scouting. Period. No more; no less.

And I do not disagree with you.

I merely posted what I felt could be changed to help eliminate the issues set forth in this thread. I even admitted that my ideas were rough and harsh. But I also felt that the users here would see the point I was trying to make.

It is sad to see from the postings on this Forum that Scouting is not 100% universal in every Unit. It should be.

The changes needed to make every unit operate the same, to have every leader read, understand and follow the G2SS the same way (including the lawyers), to have the requirements of a Merit Badge be interprested by everyone in the same manner can either be done two ways: Top down or bottom up. In an organization such as the BSA, it works better if it top-down and pushed hard such that you drive the bad leaders out.

I do see room for some uniqueness in units. But the paperwork (all should be electronic now anyway), process, etc...should be the same.

P.S. That does not mean a Scout (or his parents) should intentionally do an End Run around the SM... That's another subject alltogether.

Agreed. Again, the Merit Badge process should be a rank "requirement" so all Scouts (and parents) get the same information. Or at least part or the Welcome to Scouting class that all parents should be required to take.

[kwildman]

ThunderingWind - what are you going to do about Summer Camps? What about out of council summer camps? What about little johnny that wants more merit badges and does a second week of camp as a Provo? In many cases some "council camps" are merit badge mills because it helps get them campers and keep them full.