Merit badge procedures

[deweylure]

A scout came to me with a partial from camp. After completing the requirements I asked to see the partial blue card from camp. His reply was the SM keeps the blue cards untill completed.. Should I call the SM to get it for the scout? Should he fill out another blue card and I partial it just for that specific requirement?
I aqm lost on this one ,it does not make sense.

[Suzyplus2]

I understand the SM keeping the blue card for the scout - as Advancement Chair I do the same thing. Each card comes to me after summer camp, is recorded and then placed in each scout's respective file. Any scout at any time can ask for his blue card to work on completion, but they appreciate me holding onto them in the meantime.

In our troop, also, any scout at anytime can look through his own file. We keep blue cards, notation of special awards, current physical forms, etc in their file. It works for us.

Also - when I do hand a partial blue card to a scout, I do keep a copy of it just in case the original is misplaced.


In the case of the scouts you were working with, I suspect the scouts have not assked the SM for the partial cards, but if they have asked then I would do exactly as you mentioned - fill out a new partial for the requirements you actually completed with the scouts.

Thank you for your time & dedication to scouting - I know MBC is not the most glamourous role within scouting, but it is certainly very important.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

I'm also the advancement cordinator for our troop and I too keep all blue cards for the scouts until completed. A scout may ask me anytime for their partials and I try to remind them a few times a year as to what I still have for them. I have them see what requirements they have left and try to encourage them to complete them.

I know some folks like to turn the blue cards over to the scouts but we find it just works better to hang onto them until they're serious about finishing them.

[Mrw]

We give the blue cards back to the boys if they have partials.

We find they fall into two categories. The first are the ones the boys are very dedicated to finish. These often come back completed after only a week or two.

The second set are the ones for things the scout started and decided he is never going to finish. My younger son has one of these for shotgun shooting. He said he realized very quickly that he was wasting money on the ammo as there was no way he was going to finish.

We do make sure they understand that if they lose the card, they need to start over.

[TCC7]

Mrw states

We do make sure they understand that if they lose the card, they need to start over.

Why would the scout need to start over. I'm sure the counselor and scout would know what reguirements were remaining. Scouts lose things all the time. So do I.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Without the card, there's no proof of anything ever being done. Don't count on the counselor remembering!

What if the scout received a partial from summercamp and wants to finish the badge at home, how would a counselor from home know what's been done?

[TCC7]

Icancanoecanu stated

What if the scout received a partial from summercamp and wants to finish the badge at home, how would a counselor from home know what's been done?

and

Without the card, there's no proof of anything ever being done.

Since you keep all of the blue cards, what happens if you lose one or all of them. Lost also includes distroyed.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Same thing, the scout is out of luck as far as proof goes. But... who do you think has a greater chance of losing the blue cards? An adult or a scout, especially a young, new scout?
btw - It's not like I won't give partials to the boys to keep, it's just not how we do it normally. Anyone that asks me for their cards can have them. Most scouts like that I keep them for them.
It also doesn't hurt to have the scout forced into making contact again with another adult, since one of the goals is to help scouts learn self confidence communicating with adults.

[TCC7]

I have a real concern for scouts having to start a merit badge over if the blue card is lost. A good example is a scout with less than ninety days to his 18th birthday. He was currently working on Family Life which has a requirement for 5 chores in a ninety day period.

ICanCanoeCanU states that if he lost the card:

Same thing, the scout is out of luck as far as proof goes. But... who do you think has a greater chance of losing the blue cards? An adult or a scout, especially a young, new scout?

This scout can't make Eagle according to your rule.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

This isn't my rule?

So let's say your a MBC for a badge and a scout contacts you and says they've already started the badge and done most of it. You say fine and set up a meeting together to finish the badge. The scout arrives and says well I can't find my blue card but I did requirements 1-8 last summer. Are you going to just give them credit for 1-8?

Now if the MBC knows that the scout did indeed finish the requirements, the MBC can issue a new blue card. This is between the scout and counselor.

As for the 18 yr old you referenced = if the scout just recently started this badge with a MBC, then the counselor should've signed off on his list of chores and would most likely remember where the scout was on the badge. But if the scout started the badge 3 years ago and is trying to finish it now, how would a MBC know what the scout had previously done?

This scout can't make Eagle according to your rule.

Again, not my rule here? Is this the responsibilty of the counselor?

[Rick Tyler]

I have a real concern for scouts having to start a merit badge over if the blue card is lost.

Advancement isn't the goal of Scouting, but building character is. Having an adult take responsibility for the care of blue cards isn't a big thing, but it is one more way to tell Scouts that they are children and will be taken care of. Part of growing up is learning that actions have consequences. I give them their partially-completed blue cards and if they lose them it's up to them to work with the counselor on whether already-completed requirements have to be done over or recorded.

It's the Scout's merit badge, not mine. I want him to accept responsibility for his advancement and for his mistakes if he loses a card.

[TCC7]

ICanCanoeCanU states:

This isn't my rule?

I wish someone would tell me where this rule comes from. Because I can't find it anywhere.
The merit badge application is in three parts. One part goes back to the unit leader upon completion; one part stays with the scout: and one part is suggested to be held for one year after completion by the counselor. The unit leader or leaders shouldn't have possession of the blue card or the one third until the requirements have been met unless that leader is the MBC.
Rick Tyler states:

Advancement isn't the goal of Scouting, but building character is.

I understand that character building is one of the aims of scouting. I also know that Advancement is clearly defined as one of the Methods to reach the Aims. The Advancement policies and procedures manual states that

No additional requirements may be added. A merit badge cannot be taken away once it has been earned, provided the counselor is is a registered counselor for the merit badge.

No where can I find that the scout should have to re-do requirements. That would be adding additional requirements.

[wagionvigil]

I am a MBC for several MB if a scout comes to me and says "I have a partial in this MB BUT I do not have any proof" I am sorry You start over.

The Blue Card the Scout is to save with the partial on it is the proof and without it there is none.

[Rick Tyler]

Rick Tyler states:

Advancement isn't the goal of Scouting, but building character is.

I understand that character building is one of the aims of scouting. I also know that Advancement is clearly defined as one of the Methods to reach the Aims. The Advancement policies and procedures manual states that

No additional requirements may be added. A merit badge cannot be taken away once it has been earned, provided the counselor is is a registered counselor for the merit badge.

No where can I find that the scout should have to re-do requirements. That would be adding additional requirements.

Here is what I wrote that this anonymous Scouter took issue with:

"I give them their partially-completed blue cards and if they lose them it's up to them to work with the counselor on whether already-completed requirements have to be done over or recorded. "

Let me do the tedious long version in place of the short one I wrote earlier:

"I've been a merit badge counselor for the last five years and have probably counseled 250 or 300 MBs in that time. I never keep a blue card for any Scout, and I don't give the to advancement chairmen. Since I believe that the Scout should take responsibility for his own advancement, and that I believe that making mistakes in safe environments is a critical part of the learning process, I give the blue cards back to the Scout at the end of each counseling session. If the merit badge is complete, I keep the Counselors portion of the card.

"I do not keep track of completion status for Scouts I am counseling. If they lose a blue card it is up to them to document to my satisfaction that they have completed some of the requirements. If I remember the Scout completing a requirement I sign the requirement on the card. If the Scout has some other documentation, I may accept that. If I don't remember the Scout completing certain requirements or any given requirement, I may ask the Scout to complete the requirement or requirements in question.

"It is my responsibility as a merit badge counselor to insure that a Scout has fulfilled the requirements for the merit badge as much as it is for a Scoutmaster to insure the quality of the rest of the advancement program. I do not have to take the Scout's word for anything -- and nothing in the advancement procedures requires me to. If it says 'show' I ask them to show, if it says 'describe' I ask them to describe, and if it says 'write a letter' I ask them to write a letter. I keep track of requirements completion by signing requirements on a blue card. If the Scout loses the documentation, I can no longer be sure that he has 'shown,' 'described,' or 'written a letter.' In this case, I have no alternative except to ask that the Scout complete the requirement as written regardless of whether he believes he has successfully completed the requirement in the past. It is not his responsibility to decide if the requirement is completed, it is mine.

"Asking a Scout to meet the requirements of a merit badge when he thinks he has already met those requirements is not adding to the requirements, or taking away from the requirements. It is asking a Scout to complete the requirements. Since my memory is fallible I take the position that if it isn't written down (in this case, on a blue card) it didn't happen."

I am suprised that you seem to believe that I am suggesting that requirements should be added to a merit badge Nothing I have written supports your conclusion. Your misinterpretation of what I wrote would be comic if it wasn't so offensive. Did you really not understand what I wrote?

[TCC7]

Rick,
You stated:

Here is what I wrote that this anonymous Scouter took issue with:

"I give them their partially-completed blue cards and if they lose them it's up to them to work with the counselor on whether already-completed requirements have to be done over or recorded. "

I think if you look back, I didn't take issue with your statement. I take issue with the fact that someone stated it's a rule that they start over, period. I can't find that rule. I also agree with what you said about working with the counselor on requirements and their completion. Maybe a simple MBC record keeping sheet could be devised that would eliminate problems with lost cards. Similar to school teacher records. I not trying to take away from the responsibility of the scout, but the merit badges are there for the scout to learn skills. The National Executive Board in their policy on Merit Badge Counseling states that attention should be given to each individual candidate's projects and his ability to fulfill all requirements.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Kodiak - you are the one that referred to this as a rule?
MRW stated that they make sure the scout understands if they lose a blue card with a partial, they will have to start over. You questioned why the scout would have to start over. We (several of us now) have tried to help you understand why a scout would have to start over, by the fact that all proof of what the scout did would be gone.
This was your next statement:

Since you keep all of the blue cards, what happens if you lose one or all of them. Lost also includes distroyed.

Which I replied:

Same thing, the scout is out of luck as far as proof goes.

And this is where you said

This scout can't make Eagle according to your rule.

So you are the one that keeps referring to this as a rule.
This isn't a rule that's written down - just obvious that all proof is gone, therefore a scout would have to start over unless a particular MBC that worked with the scout, knows exactly what's been done.
I hope your understanding this now?

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Kodiak - In re-reading your last post, I didn't address all of your concerns.

A MBC CAN give full attention to a scout and in helping them earn a badge but..... why would it be the responsibility of the counselor to keep track of? That IS the whole point of a blue card, to keep track.

You seem to be bothered with the idea that some adults hold onto partials for scouts (because they belong to the scout) but then you want someone to be responsible for the scout losing the card? If it's that hard for a scout to hang onto then why not let the adult hold it?

Also, when I said that I hold onto partials, I'm speaking about when the boys come back from summercamp. I have to record and submit paperwork for the completed badges. Now I have a pile of partials too, which I hold onto unless a scout asks me for his, which I have no problem giving to them - EXCEPT - they must know that the card is the only proof they have as to which requirements they've completed.

[TCC7]

True, I'm the first to mention the word rule because the posts referred to something set in stone. You said it wasn't your rule so all I want to know is who's rule is it?

The National Executive Board in their policy on Merit Badge Counseling states that attention should be given to each individual candidate's projects and his ability to fulfill all requirements.

The NEB also refers to a counselor-scout relationship where the scout is not only judged on his performance of the requirements, but receives the maximum benefit of the personal interest of his counselor. How do we define maximum benefit of the personal interest? I think that having a record of that scouts completed requirements may fit in there. What do you think? Just trying to define the role and how we can best serve the scout.

[cballman]

ahhh the age old problem when do we as adults let the kids learn from the lost blue card. should it be on the first one or should it be on the eve of their 18 birthday. now lets look at this from a MBC that is also an ASM in a troop with a membership of over 50 kids. I dont have time or the house to record all of the req. that a kid has done for any particular MB. I cant even remember what most of the kids names are that are in band with my kids. so then whos responsabilty is it to keep record. I will have a merit badge class with a set of requirements for each badge but then after the merit badge is over I file it away along with my other outdated scout papers. if a kid says that he has completed if he has no documents that says he completed it then if i remember i will sign off but if I dont then he has to show me that he has done them which means he might have to do them all, over again. sorry but BSA does not or will ever stand for "Baby Sitters of America" If anyone get upset over my last statement then I will apologize now but I dont have time to babysit everyones elses kids that cant keep things as important as a merit badge card.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

True about me claiming it isn't my rule, it's no one's rule.- it's not an official rule.

So with what you're saying - what about my examples of a scout returning from summercamp and now connecting with a brand new MBC at home. If the scout doesn't have the blue card, how is the new MBC suppose to know (or how could they be responsible) which requirements the scout covered at camp? How could this new counselor have a record?