help on judging MB requirements intent?

[Dadof4]

Hi everyone,
I've posted a similar topic on the archery MB board. I've been looking at volunteering to be an archery mbc for my troop. Looking through the requirements I see E1/F1 specifically state the scout must use a finger release. However options E2/F2 do not specifically state the type of release they can use to achieve the score.

If I have to judge the requirement AS WRITTEN, then for E2/F2 they may use mechanical release right?

While this is common for hunting, I can't help but feel that the INTENT of E2/F2 was to use tabs or gloves.

[wagionvigil]

BSA does not approve of mechanical releases as far as I know.

[deweylure]

t specifically states in the MB book I read that if a mechanical release is used it must be done under adult supervision. I would try to dis courage the use of a release aid. It is one more step a young archer has to learn,this on top of proper stance ,sighting ,bow control etc.

[Dadof4]

Thanks for the reply..
I've watched the boy in question shoot archery at camp since he was a tiger cubscout and he is now going for second class. I know he has all the basics, but doesn't have the strength to draw the bow with the string on his finger tips. He can draw the bow easily if he fists the string, but then he misses because of his release technique.

But, it doesn't seem to be my choice anyway. If the book says he can use it under supervision, he can use it.
Thanks again..

[longhorneagle]

If the requirement doesn’t say no finger release they can use a finger release for that option for completing the archery MB. However the archery MB book states that finger releases should only be use under the supervision of a qualified archery instructor. To me that means that if a scout is using a finger release I need to be watching him at all times to ensure that proper safety is followed.

Remember you can’t delete or add anything to the requirements. I would guess that the national advancement committee will revise the archery MB requirements to resolve the duel standard they have set, but until they change it the current requirements are what must be followed.

[fritz1255]

There are times when the rules need to be altered slightly to fit the times. Simply no way around it. I was teaching Computer Merit badge a couple of years ago, and the requirements had not been updated since 1992 (they have thankfully been updated since I taught the badge). One of the requirements wsa that each Scout was to write a program in something like Basic, Fortran, or Cobol. I suppose there might be some way that you could still do this by enlisting the help of a software developer, but no practical way that I could figure out. I ended up having them write programs in Visual Basic, which is embedded in Microsoft Office, and has them make macros. For those unfamilar with this program, it is a much simpler interface which allows you to write a program without actually entering code. The general concept is the same, but I can't imagine it was what was envisioned when the requirements were written. Jump in, all you "rules weenies", but that's my take on the subject.

[scoutaholic]

There are times when the rules need to be altered slightly to fit the times. ...
I was teaching Computer Merit badge ... and the requirements had not been updated since 1992... One of the requirements was that each Scout was to write a program in something like Basic, Fortran, or Cobol. ... I ended up having them write programs in Visual Basic, which is embedded in Microsoft Office, and has them make macros. For those unfamilar with this program, it is a much simpler interface which allows you to write a program without actually entering code....

If they wrote a program in Visual BASIS, they wrote BASIC. The visual interface is different than the older text editors, but the finished product is the same. Visual BASIC comes with several graphic elements and scripts to accomplish regular functions. You still have to write code for anything their ordinary tools don't do. Just because a newer tool exists to make the writing easier, doesn't mean the scouts didn't write a program.

As far as there being times that the rules need to be altered to fit the times, I believe that is true, but it is not up to me as SM or MBC to change them. That is up to National BSA. They have been updating all the MBs over the last few years. Most everything should be reasonably current now. If there are still things that you see as needing updates, you need to make sure your proposed updates are sent to the national office, and let them make the changes. Until they make changes, you should continue to teach the MB as the requirements are currently written.

[PaulSWolf]

As far as there being times that the rules need to be altered to fit the times, I believe that is true, but it is not up to me as SM or MBC to change them. That is up to National BSA. They have been updating all the MBs over the last few years. Most everything should be reasonably current now. If there are still things that you see as needing updates, you need to make sure your proposed updates are sent to the national office, and let them make the changes. Until they make changes, you should continue to teach the MB as the requirements are currently written.

That's correct, in fact, if you check the bottom of this page: http://usscouts.org/mb/mbbooks.asp , you'll see that there are only 7 merit badges that haven't had updates since 2000.

They are:
Mammal Study - last updated sometime before 1979,
Drafting in 1993,
Indian Lore, Architecture, and Pets in 1995, and
Farm Mechanics and Motorboating in 1998.

And the pamphlets for only three of those haven't been revised in the same period: Drafting, Farm Mechanics, and Motorboating.

I'm not an expert on any of those except Drafting. But for Drafting, the requirements, while a bit dated, are still perfectly reasonable for today's industry.

[WVBeaver05]

There are times when the rules need to be altered slightly to fit the times. Simply no way around it. I was teaching Computer Merit badge a couple of years ago, and the requirements had not been updated since 1992 (they have thankfully been updated since I taught the badge). One of the requirements wsa that each Scout was to write a program in something like Basic, Fortran, or Cobol. I suppose there might be some way that you could still do this by enlisting the help of a software developer, but no practical way that I could figure out. I ended up having them write programs in Visual Basic, which is embedded in Microsoft Office, and has them make macros. For those unfamilar with this program, it is a much simpler interface which allows you to write a program without actually entering code. The general concept is the same, but I can't imagine it was what was envisioned when the requirements were written. Jump in, all you "rules weenies", but that's my take on the subject.

Here is my take on this - keeping in mind that the MBC can't add or subtract from the requirements.

The requirement says write a program - if they wrote using VBA (Visual Basic for Applications) they met the requirement. If they used the built in macro builder and generated code without writing it, IMO they didn't.

YiS

[fritz1255]

We're a litttle off-topic from the original Archery Merit Badge subject, but....If I as Merit Badge counselor feel that a minor requirement is outdated or simply impractical for my area for some reason, I am going to substitute something as equivalent as I can make it rather than suspend the class for months waiting on some decision from the National Council. I believe that common sense has to figure in at some point rather than blind obedience to rules. Jump in and criticize if you like, but that's the way I'm going to do it as long as I am a Counselor, as long as there are no safety and/or youth protection implications associated with the change.

"Impractical for my area" has stopped us from offering some badges at all. We live in a formerly rural area that still has narrow, winding roads with little or no shoulders combined with high traffic density. About the only safe way to do the several trips required for the Cycling merit badge would be on an exercise bike, and the trips are pretty much crucial to the overall experience the Scouts are supposed to get while doing the badge.

[cballman]

also on the cycling merit badge to fulfull the req. for the trips have a stupid parent " like I was" drive a truck behind the group with the flashers on and keep the group within eysight. it worked for all the trips that I helped out with. I also had water and tools just in case we needed something. never really needed to be there but just in case i was there. also for the 50 mile bike ride we went out of state to a place in Ohio that had reclaimed old train right of ways that has become a "Rails to Trails" program. it was great and NO motorized vehicles allowed on the trails. so I had to meet them at different points to refill water and snacks. these 50 milers were just a day trip so it was no big deal but to the kids who earned the badge it was perfect.

[wagionvigil]

I would never do the biking require,ent on the roads around here. Narrow and lots of curves and Hills. BUT we are fortunate to have at least two rails to trails projects within 30 miles and that is where we would do the trips. Actually one goes from the Burgh to DC. About 7 to 8 days. Great Trip!

[fritz1255]

We're WAY off-topic now, but the last time we did a bike hike on the roads with one of the dads following pulling the Troop trailer, we had numerous irate motorists honking their horns and shaking their fists when they finally did get past. Transplanted city dwellers are generally not courteous, kind, obedient, or cheerful!

[Mrw]

We routed a 230 rider tour through downtown Toledo and Cleveland on weekday mornings last summer with no problems between motorists and cyclists. These were primarily adults and I don't think I would do it with my scouts.

I would take them riding in our area on many of the roads, though in small groups.

I ride somewhere over 2500 miles a year, almost all of it on roads. There are certainly rude motorists as well as rude bikers. As both a rider and biker, I would have found the troop dad following with the trailer to be frustrating as well. A better option is for him to leap-frog the bike group and look for a place to pull off ahead at whatever point you have agreed the next stop should be.

He is actually causing it to be more dangerous for the bikers in front of him as cars that want to pass cannot see the bikes ahead.

[FrankJ]

I agree with MRW on this. Blocking traffic with a trailer is unsafe and builds resentment to both bicyclists & scouts. One thing you should be learning in the merit badge is how ride safely and in harmony with traffic.

If you are looking for a safe place to ride in your area: Talk to the local bike shops. They are almost always owned & staffed by enthusiasts They can provide you contact with the local riding club, if there is one, in your area, know local routes that are safe to ride. Most shops also sponsor rides as well.

[Mrw]

I Ohio, there is an annual "Bicycle Events Calendar" published and available on the web. It lists all the organized rides in the state for the year and links to many, if not all, the bike clubs.

If you are in this area and looking for a 50 milers to complete this badge, there are many rides that would provide the support and routing needed for the group without having personal "SAG" wagons on the road. It also would give the boys a chance to ride on the road with other older cyclists and see what is available as far as group rides for those boys who really want to get into and stick with cycling as a hobby and continuing source of recreation.

I would imagine there are other states or areas with similar resources.

If your troop wants to go on a multi-day ride and doesn't know if they can support it themselves, the National Bicycle Tour Directors Assoc web site lists rides across the nation that could be used to provide the routing and support you need. GOBA in Ohio each June (www.goba.com) would be especially good for this. We have seen scout groups registered and riding this tour in the past.