How long is too long?

[international]

How long is too long to wait for the merit badge counselor to respond.

From some old post, I know that some of your boys do call the counselors on the phone, but my son was advised to use e-mail. So, its been almost 2 weeks.

How long is too long?

---------------

www.myspace.com/worldjamboree

[Mrw]

I would suggest he call the counselor today on the phone or get a new name to contact.

I realize people take vacations, etc, but two weeks is a long time.

On a more personal note, I would prefer my son to have called the person on the phone so I could listen in on the one side of the conversation. The boys I ever use e-mail communications with are 1-copying their parent or other troop members on everything or 2-using an email that is shared by the family and therefore seen by the parents. One of those CYA youth protection type things.

[international]

I would suggest he call the counselor today on the phone or get a new name to contact.

I realize people take vacations, etc, but two weeks is a long time.

On a more personal note, I would prefer my son to have called the person on the phone so I could listen in on the one side of the conversation. The boys I ever use e-mail communications with are 1-copying their parent or other troop members on everything or 2-using an email that is shared by the family and therefore seen by the parents. One of those CYA youth protection type things.

Lets suppose , because ,more for my son than for me, I can't go into specifics, but lets say that he can't get the # of the counselor and there's no other one available for the specific badge my son is interested. What then. I am trying to let my son deal with the situation, like I learned in this forum, but if I can't do something soon, I will either burst or my son will definitely lose all the interest in the BSA. program.

HELP!!!!!!!!!
---------------------
www.myspace.com/worldjamboree

[Chief J]

I would recomend your son attempt a follow-up email and copy you as his parent on it. (That is in the interests of Youth Protection). He might also state in the body of his email that you were included for just that reason.

He may also want to try and get the phone number to call the individual he is attempting to make contact with.

I know that my server at work has anti-spam software installed that intercepts any email that has a @yahoo.com, @msn.com, @gmail.com, etc.

Once intercepted it goes to an administrator account where it is reviewed by our computer folks to determine if the message should be forwarded on or deleted as spam. Other folks I know have email addresses that intercept email from anyone that has not been preapproved by the email box owner. These might be a couple of reasons that it is taking so long, the counselor may have never received the original message.

As far as youth protection, if I receive an email from a youth, I will only respond to the youth if I can copy a parent or guardian on my response as well as the youth. I also copy my Committee Chair as I am the SM. This way sevral other adults have seen the original message as well as my response so there is no Youth PRotection Issues.

Chief J

[international]

The e-mail address that my son used its our family e-mail address. That's the same e-mail that's used for the Troops communication, and that's why I know that's been no contact, also the Scout Master, the Assistant and the Merit Badge Counselor, they are all related, so even if the e-mail didn't reach the Counselors mail box , I know far sure that he knows about my son.

It took my son 3 years to get to first class, because he just wasn't interested in advancing .Now, he came from the World Scout Jamboree with a new eagerness to advance to the next level that is Star and to work on the things he needs to get there. I see whatever how discouraged he's becoming because he wants to move on, get other badges but the Troop doesn't recommend, and I also don't agree with a bunch of partial merit badges, so he waits, and waits.... and waits....

Should my son send a "just in case you forgot" e-mail? should he forget about that particular badge (that's hard, he has everything done, just needs the counselor to OK it) should I get involved ? or is there another way?
--------------------
www.myspace.com/worldjamboree

[FrankJ]

Have your son go to the SM for advice. If the councilor is unresponsive, the SM should know. If they are all related then the SM will the best alternate contact.

[international]

I would recomend your son attempt a follow-up email and copy you as his parent on it. (That is in the interests of Youth Protection). He might also state in the body of his email that you were included for just that reason. (....)
I know that my server at work has anti-spam software installed that intercepts any email that has a @yahoo.com, @msn.com, @gmail.com, etc.

Once intercepted it goes to an administrator account where it is reviewed by our computer folks to determine if the message should be forwarded on or deleted as spam. Other folks I know have email addresses that intercept email from anyone that has not been preapproved by the email box owner. These might be a couple of reasons that it is taking so long, the counselor may have never received the original message.

As far as youth protection, if I receive an email from a youth, I will only respond to the youth if I can copy a parent or guardian on my response as well as the youth. I also copy my Committee Chair as I am the SM. This way sevral other adults have seen the original message as well as my response so there is no Youth PRotection Issues.

Chief J

The counselor knows that it's a "family" e-mail,but even if all he didn't know and the e-mail was lost in the spam folder, its not a good excuse
As soon as my son arrived from the Jamboree, he started working on the badge (I know now that first he should find a counselor), soon after he e-mail the ASM telling her that he was ready to be "tested" actually since the badge is the Communications, he actually wanted to incorporate the 5mn. speech in the next Court of Honor .The ASM replied that he need to talk with the MB Counselor, but that he should whatever get everything ready for the following meting so he could talk with the SM and get an OK for the Court of Honor

The SM. wasn't interested in including my sons idea in the Court of Honor , but the ASM did told my son that the MB Counselor already knew that he was interested in the badge but she advised him to send an e-mail to him anyway's.

So, he knows, even if all the other stuff happen

--------------------
www.myspace.com/worldjamboree

[WVBeaver05]

As someone who practically lives by e-mail at work, I would say that almost no one would object to a "did you get my message" e-mail after a 2 week wait. (And, if they did object then they need to consider why.)

On another point, as a SM and MB councelor, knowing about a Scout wanting to work on a MB isn't the same as him asking about it (be it in person, by phone, or e-mail). I make it a practice to not do anything until the Scout asks me. Mom/Dad/another leader/etc. only makes me aware that a Scout may ask me. They arent' earning the MB, the Scout is. So I would not put any consideration into "...he knows..."

However, if the MB councelor isn't responsive to the Scout, then it is time to find another one - and, to make sure the SM who recommended him knows. Perhaps you have no other approved councelors in you Troop, but for a MB like this one, the District/Council will have them.

YiS

[jr56]

Since Communication merit badge is an Eagle required badge, there should be plenty of local counselors to choose from. I'm surprised that your troop doesn't have a parent or adult leader already registered to counsel boys in your troop with this badge. If not, your son needs to ask his Soutmaster for the name of another counselor. I wouldn't feel bad about submitting another e-mail after 2 weeks. I think 2-3 days should be more than enough time for a counselor to respond.

[Nuts4Scouts]

Did your son ever get a signed "blue card" from his SM, signifying permission to work on the badge, with the MBC info on it?

Has your son ever met with the Merit Badge Counselor at all?

It does not matter who the MBC is related to. It does not matter that your son told a ASM he had finished the Merit Badge. It does not matter if the MBC "should" know about your son's interest.

Perhaps the MBC is waiting for your son to get official permission (signed blue card) to do the badge. Perhaps he is a bit off put because he feels your son just wants the badge signed off with no input from him, the Merit Badge Counselor. Perhaps he does not read his email regularly. There could be a lot going on here.

Your son needs to talk with his SM first. Not the ASM. If he does not already have one, he needs to get a signed blue card from his SM. He also needs to get a phone number to contact the MBC.

If he already has a signed blue card, he needs to let his SM know that he had been unable to contact the MBC (Yes, he should send a follow up email to the MBC). He should then ask for a phone number for the current MBC or the contact info for a different MBC.

Since he has never actually met with, or been counseled by any Merit Badge Counselor for this badge, a new Counselor should not cause any problems.

[Nuts4Scouts]

Should my son send a "just in case you forgot" e-mail? should he forget about that particular badge (that's hard, he has everything done, just needs the counselor to OK it)

When your son does get in touch with a Counselor, he should be prepared that he might need to do some parts over. Looking at the requirements for the badge, there are a number of requirements that should have the prior approval of the MBC. There are also a number of requirements that include a discussion of some kind with the MBC.

While it is possible that a MBC might accept all of your sons work, there is also the possibility that there might be parts they will not approve.

I hope he has kept a detailed packet on everything he has done.

[Mrw]

When my son was having difficulty reaching the contact person for his Eagle badge, I told him he should call the guy once a day and leave a message.

Eventually, the wife got tired of getting the daily message and made him return calls.

The same can work with e-mail. If he mails one message a day and copies the SM, ASM, CC and anyone else who is involved in this, someone will eventually get the point that your son really wants this and it will happen. Persistance can go a long way.

And as for the other comments about whether the guy wants to work with him without having a blue card etc, it sounds pretty obvious that the counselor would not know any of this since he hasn't responded at all.

If this doesn't get you anywhere, call your district of council advancement person and let them know you need a counselor for such and such a badge and the only name you have is not responding. They should be able to find someone for you.

[maricopasem]

Did your son ever get a signed "blue card" from his SM, signifying permission to work on the badge, with the MBC info on it? . . . .

Perhaps the MBC is waiting for your son to get official permission (signed blue card) to do the badge.

So you're saying that a Scout cannot do any work on any badge without permission from the Scoutmaster?

[RWSmith]

So you're saying that a Scout cannot do any work on any badge without permission from the Scoutmaster?

(Please excuse me for butting in...) No. Use the "Search" feature at the top of the page. You will find several posts that indicate anything a Scout has done --since joining Scouting-- may count towards completing some requirement. The Scout needs to satisfy the MBC that he completed such-and-such requirement since joining Scouts.

Example: A Scout joins a Troop at age 12; and, he starts the Communications MB at age 14. However, he wrote and gave a 5-minute speech in front of his English class at age 13. The Scout goes to the former English teacher and gets a note specicifically stating that the boy did such-and-such during such-and-such time-frame. The letter presented to the MBC is verifiable evidence that the Scout already met the requirement... the MBC may (actually, should) accept this as having satisfactorly met the requirement in question.

[maricopasem]

So you're saying that a Scout cannot do any work on any badge without permission from the Scoutmaster?

(Please excuse me for butting in...) No. Use the "Search" feature at the top of the page. You will find several posts that indicate anything a Scout has done --since joining Scouting-- may count towards completing some requirement. The Scout needs to satisfy the MBC that he completed such-and-such requirement since joining Scouts.

Example: A Scout joins a Troop at age 12; and, he starts the Communications MB at age 14. However, he wrote and gave a 5-minute speech in front of his English class at age 13. The Scout goes to the former English teacher and gets a note specicifically stating that the boy did such-and-such during such-and-such time-frame. The letter presented to the MBC is verifiable evidence that the Scout already met the requirement... the MBC may (actually, should) accept this as having satisfactorly met the requirement in question.

Thank you.

My question was rhetorical, knowing the answer and baiting the group. And I found that I've weighed in with fairly strong opinions on many of the posts to which you refer.

[Swim4lyfe]

Thank you.

My question was rhetorical, knowing the answer and baiting the group. And I found that I've weighed in with fairly strong opinions on many of the posts to which you refer.

Cheater :O Good trick though.

[RWSmith]

There is no policy that prevents a Scout from presenting evidence of a requirement he had already completed (prior to the SM's sig. or not, because it's not even relevant) to his MBC for consideration for approval. The only thing a Scout needs in order to earn credit for a MB requirement is to be a Scout. Period. And, of course, satisfy the MBC by presenting your evidence with whatever explaination (and discussion, thereof) is necessary.

The SM does not have the authority to dis-approve (or prevent) a Scout from taking any MB; therefore, how can he "approve" a Scout's taking a MB? The SM's signature simply shows the MBC that the SM and Scout discussed his desire to take the MB, that the Scout requested a BC, and that the SM was given the opportunity to assign a particular MBC to the Scout.

Anybody, even my sister, can complete any MB requirement; but, unless specifically restricted w/i a MBs requirements, any registered Boy Scout can earn any MB reqiurement... ANY! And the MBC can accept satisfatory evidence, as such... again, unless the MBs requirements specifically state otherwise.

As many of you know, references for above statements have already been established in prior postings. (And all of you should know that the Counselors and Admins are obligated to correct or remove posts that erroneously report mis-information.)

[Nuts4Scouts]

Granted that the SM can not (or at least should not) stop a boy from working on a MB.

What happens when a boy goes to a MBC, shows him all of his work on the specific merit badge, the MBC approves all of it, then the boy does not have a "blue card" (or other local equivalent) for the MBC to sign off on? Will a note written on a sheet of paper and signed by the MBC suffice? For those councils who require that all blue cards be brought to your EBOR, will the signed note be "good" enough?

We all know what should happen, but we also all know there are plenty of units and councils out there that do not do things the way they should be done.

International has stated that his son's SM, ASM, and the MBC are all related, that all 3 knew about his sons work on this MB, that the ASM specifically stated that the MBC had been told the boy wanted to talk to him.

The only reason that I can think of why this MBC has been ignoring this boy for about a month now is that the MBC was told by his relative, the SM (who btw would not let the boy do a speech at COH), that the boy had not gone thru "proper channels" to get "approval" before working on the MB.

It does not matter if the SM and MBC "should" be doing this or not. However, to me it is the answer that fits best.

International - How about an update on your son's problem?

[RWSmith]

Nuts,

I'm not 100% sure about some of what I'm getting ready to post, so... I'm going to check on this... Also, if somebody has FACTS contrary to what I'm saying, please step up...

International has stated that his son's SM, ASM, and the MBC are all related, that all 3 knew about his sons work on this MB, that the ASM specifically stated that the MBC had been told the boy wanted to talk to him. The only reason that I can think of why this MBC has been ignoring this boy for about a month now is that the MBC was told by his relative, the SM (who btw would not let the boy do a speech at COH), that the boy had not gone thru "proper channels" to get "approval" before working on the MB.

Okay, here we go... "What we have here, is a failure to communicate." This is all about a web of accountability --between the Scout, the Scout's parents, the SM (and ASMs), the MBC, the Troop Committee, the UC (and ADC), the District/Council Advancement Committee, even the Council Registrar-- checks-and-balances everywhere... EVERYWHERE. I'd bet that most Scouts and probably most Scouters will tell you that the SM is at the center of this web; but, that's not true... it's the Scout. The goal of every single postion above is to enable and support the Scout's growth and advancement. Yet, too often, we hear on this board about some bone-headed Scoutmaster, throwing obstacles in front of Scouts! Somebody --the Scout, the parent and/or the Scouter-- is either misunderstanding, mis-informed, or mistakenly effecting some policy or proceedure, which needs to be clarified, resolved, or even possibly rectified.

Step 1. Scout and parent meet with the SM, discuss the issue, attempt to resolve the issue.

Step 2. If the issue is not resolved by the next week's Troop meeting, Scout and parent go to the CC (and/or, possibly the Troop Committee's Advancement Chair), discuss the issue, attempt to resolve the issue.

Step 3. If the issue is not resolved by the next week's Troop meeting, Scout and parent go to the UC/ADC, discuss the issue, attempt to resolve the issue.

Step 4. If the issue is not resolved by the next week's Troop meeting, Scout and parent go to the DC/DE, discuss the issue, attempt to resolve the issue.

So, what we have been looking for, thus far, is for somebody in a position of authority, who knows the policies and proceedures, and can correct the issue by successfully educating and modifying the behavior of the mis-informed party of the FACTS -- the way it's supposed to be done.

Step 5. If the issue remains unresolved and you're in the right: Then, by all means, transfer to another Troop!!! If this option is not feasible, there are still alternatives... Make First Class and join a Crew is just one example.

What happens when a boy goes to a MBC, shows him all of his work on the specific merit badge, the MBC approves all of it, then the boy does not have a "blue card" (or other local equivalent) for the MBC to sign off on?

Well, since we use Blue Cards in our council, I won't hesitate to tell a Scout to get me a Blue Card.

Will a note written on a sheet of paper and signed by the MBC suffice?

Frankly, as long as the letter presented is from an MBC on the District/Council's aproved MBC roster, I don't see how it can be refused.

For those councils who require that all blue cards be brought to your EBOR, will the signed note be "good" enough?

Well, as long as the letter presented has been validated (bears the Council Registrar's stamp), once again... I don't see how it can be refused. Whether you're expected to bring to your Blue Cards to your ESBOR or not, it's the Registrar's record that counts. Right?

[RWSmith]

Oh, and FWIW, that's why I like Blue Cards... What if the Council missed something? When I show up for my ESBOR with all my BCs stamped by the Council (some may be even from another Council, i.e., Out-of-council Summer Camp?), then I'm golden.