Registration Rules for MB Counselors

[Billiken]

One of the long-time Scouters in our unit got angry when he had to fill out a new BSA Volunteer Application to be a MB Counselor. (We're updating the list of counselors in our District.) There's also a one-page form where you list what MBs you'll counsel along with a reason why you're qualified.

I told him that MB Counselors filling out the BSA Volunteer App was a National policy and was related to youth protection.

Was I correct?

THANKS

[WeeWillie]

Youth Protection is one reason for registering. The other reason is to verify the qualifications to counsel the badge. We have too many unqualfied parents and leaders volunteering for MBs that they aren't really qualified to administer

[Nuts4Scouts]

The other reason is to verify the qualifications to counsel the badge

And how do you do that? What information does a BSA Adult Volunteer application give you that allows you to verify a persons qualifications to be a MBC?

Are they required to put down a reference who can swear to what hobbies an applicant has, and how good they are at their hobbies?

Do you call their employer to verify the applicants knowledge of the merit badge subject matter?

Where on the Adult Application does it state what kinds of specialized training a person has had?

The answer is that the Adult Application is used to track the number of volunteers in different positions and to run a background check for youth protection. There is nothing on there that is checked for knowledge of Merit Badge subject matter at all.

The Merit Badge Counselor Application is where the applicant puts down how and why they feel they are qualified to counsel a particular Merit Badge. However, I have never known any council that actually takes the time and effort to verify what is put on that application. The "qualifications" listed are mostly taken at face value.

[RWSmith]

IMO, it's been a long-time coming (and necessary) to bring the MBCs --officially-- under the local council's (and thereby, National's) umbrella. MBCs are (and should be) required to submit to BSA's policies concerning requirements necessary to become a registered Scouter -- all of them. I.e., submitting to a b/g check, and a signed agreement / commitment to abide by and uphold BSA's "joining requirements," not to mention YPT.

Also, MBCs are still only required to take MBC training; plus, there still IS NO FEE for them!!! (BTW, I don't know of a National requirement for MBCs to take YPT, yet... But, I expect it will happen.)

So, if this is properly explained to a prospective MBC, and he/she still has a problem signing an adult appl., then there's obviously a reason (somewhere) to not allow them to associate with the kids that the "regular" Scouters are ultimately responsible for... At least, not BSA-related activities. JMHO.

[riverwalk]

There's no apparent effort, or at least not standard, for checking the qualifications. Perhaps a few Districts actually do this. But you're correct in asking a Counselor to fill out another one to be a Counselor. I don't ever like doing additional forms of this type, but that's what they need/want, so we do.

[WVBeaver05]

Also, MBCs are still only required to take MBC training

Is this a National or local policy? I haven't seen it documented anywhere.

YiS

[RWSmith]

Advancement Committee Guidelines -- Policies and Procedures, No. 33088E:

• "All merit badge counselors must be trained in the aims of Boy Scouting and in advancement procedures."
• "Merit Badge Counseling is a valuable booklet for all counselors and should be made available to them by the district or council advancement committee."
• "A unit of training, Merit Badge Counselor Orientation, is available for training merit badge counselors. It can be used for a one-on-one session with a new counselor or adapted to a group session. If desired, the orientation also can be conducted as a part of other Boy Scout training."

[WVBeaver05]

Advancement Committee Guidelines -- Policies and Procedures, No. 33088E:

• "All merit badge counselors must be trained in the aims of Boy Scouting and in advancement procedures."
• "Merit Badge Counseling is a valuable booklet for all counselors and should be made available to them by the district or council advancement committee."
• "A unit of training, Merit Badge Counselor Orientation, is available for training merit badge counselors. It can be used for a one-on-one session with a new counselor or adapted to a group session. If desired, the orientation also can be conducted as a part of other Boy Scout training."

Thanks. I hadn't seen that reference. I have seen (and used) the Merit Badge Counselor booklet, and even an outline for the Orientation.

I guess it isn't clear to me that this particular Orientation is the only way to meet the requirement to train the counselors, but it clearly says that they have to be trained in both the aims of Scouting and the Scouting advancement procedures.

But I think I can use this information in upcoming discussions.

Thanks again.

YiS

[Mrw]

What I was told when I had to have one of our ASM's fill out a second ault app to become an MB counselor as well, was that they keep them in a separate computer program and that the data can't be transferred from one to the other. It is the only position that you can't just transfer title to from another registered position.

It doesn't make sense for a registered adult to re-register with the fully filled out app for this, but who ever said it needed to make sense?

[ASM-142]

My council has a policy in place where anytime a registered adult signs up for another MB then s/he needs to also submit another adult application.

[jr56]

Yes, it's pretty much standard, anytime you apply for another adult leadership position, you have to fill out another adult leadership application. I know, it kills alot of trees.

[fritz1255]

I doubt this is the correct procedure, but it seems to work for us - I keep a copy of the original adult application on file, and simply send in a copy with the Merit Badge Counselor application, or any other time that our Council Registrar or Distrct Executive asks for a "new" application from one of our adult leaders. If any new boxes need to be checked (change of position), I do that. Our Council Registrar seems to be happy with this so far, so we are too!

Lots of things seem to get "lost" at Council, and it makes absolutely no sense to me that a new application should be required every time an adult signs up for a new merit badge or different committee position. The background check has already been done (if it is REALLY done at all).

I look forward to the day when this is all done on-line. On-line rechartering was a great step in the right direction, let's do that with the entire registration process as well.

[scoutaholic]

From what I understand of registration procedures in our council, you need a new adult application any time they are registering with a new unit. Changing positions within the unit can be done without a new app.

Examples:
If a troop committee member changes to assistant scoutmaster, no new app is needed.
If a troop committee member accepts a position as a pack committee member in the pack sponsored by the same charter organization, they do need a new app.


As a general rule, to avoid the need of new applications when an adult moves to another scouting position, I make a photocopy of the original app (with the SSN included, which is not on the carbon copy pages) before I turn it in, and I register every adult in all four units sponsored by our charter organization. (All the troop staff is dual registered as committee members for the pack, team, and crew).

[jr56]

In my council, you have to fill out a new adult leader app, even if you are changing positions within a unit.

[FieldSports]

(BTW, I don't know of a National requirement for MBCs to take YPT, yet... But, I expect it will happen.)

Check the National Site. There is now a requirement for Youth Protection Training with 90 days of becoming a MBC. It is under the "Introductory Guide for MBC's

2 cents worth - its about time they did background checks on all adults! They should pop for the money to run finger prints like Girl Scouts also.

[RWSmith]

Check the National Site. There is now a requirement for Youth Protection Training with 90 days of becoming a MBC. It is under the "Introductory Guide for MBC's.

Good; glad to hear it... And, thanks.

[AquilaNegra]

So, if this is properly explained to a prospective MBC, and he/she still has a problem signing an adult appl., then there's obviously a reason (somewhere) to not allow them to associate with the kids that the "regular" Scouters are ultimately responsible for... At least, not BSA-related activities. JMHO.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you here. We have several MBCs in our troop that were dismayed to find out that the previously voluntary (it *always* starts out as voluntary) disclosure of the social security number on the form is now mandatory. It has nothing to do with the adults not being qualified and/or responsible. They're all the parents of the Scouts and most have known each other for years and years. But it's the point of the matter - the social security number being used as an identifier -- directly contrary [and stated so] to its purpose. I was frankly a little shocked to see BSA go this way. Background checks can be done without the SSN.

Not leaving your children alone with anyone is the way to protect them. It's much more effective than filling out a form -- which someone with ill intent would likely provide false information for, anyway.

[pipestone1991]

So, if this is properly explained to a prospective MBC, and he/she still has a problem signing an adult appl., then there's obviously a reason (somewhere) to not allow them to associate with the kids that the "regular" Scouters are ultimately responsible for... At least, not BSA-related activities. JMHO.

Not leaving your children alone with anyone is the way to protect them. It's much more effective than filling out a form -- which someone with ill intent would likely provide false information for, anyway.

I agree with aguila, creeps will find a way anyway (if there are any in scouting, not many huge publicized cases)

[FieldSports]

I agree two deep leadership is an absolute must. However, as a commissioner, I am truely surprised by the number of felons and actiely suspended driver's licenses that are poping up amongst the "friends I trust and have known for years".

We had a leader in my own Pack without the drivers license due to a recent second DUI. He not only was driving to events, he was taking other youth and leaders with him. We had no clue.

Again, it is also time to run finger prints. I am a girl scout leader and coach for sports. All of these organizations run background checks with SSN, Driver License and finger prints.

The people that have something to hide are the ones that fear this most and object the most.

[RWSmith]

So, if this is properly explained to a prospective MBC, and he/she still has a problem signing an adult appl., then there's obviously a reason (somewhere) to not allow them to associate with the kids that the "regular" Scouters are ultimately responsible for... At least, not BSA-related activities. JMHO.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you here.

WHAT? Where did I, or anyone previous to my original post say any anything about the SSAN? Don't bother looking, beacuse it wasn't. But, since you brought it up...

We have several MBCs in our troop that were dismayed to find out that the previously voluntary (it *always* starts out as voluntary) disclosure of the social security number on the form is now mandatory.

Yes, it always starts out as voluntary; and, yes, it goes to mandatory. I'm just as big on protecting my SSAN as you are... really, I am. (For example, the schools, and the doctors' offices, and every other bozo out there, DEMAND my kid's SSANs. But, I won't give them up.) But, you're talking about the guv'ment... the IRS, the DHS, the DMV, etc., etc., etc. But, we ain't the guv'ment. This is the BSA. Nobody's rights are being infringed upon here. It's still voluntary, regardless of what you say... You are not required to provide your SSAN; you're not required to sign the application; heck, you're not even required to submit an application. IOW, you're free to go start your own organization.

It has nothing to do with the adults not being qualified and/or responsible.

Yes; it does. And, more specifically, it has to do with NOT knowing.

Not leaving your children alone with anyone is the way to protect them.

Hey! We're talking reality here. If you know of a way I can keep my eyes on my four teenagers every minute of the day, 'til they turn 18, I'd like to know. BTW, that's why we have TDL... because no system is fool-proof.

But it's the point of the matter - the social security number being used as an identifier -- directly contrary [and stated so] to its purpose. I was frankly a little shocked to see BSA go this way. Background checks can be done without the SSN. .... It's much more effective than filling out a form -- which someone with ill intent would likely provide false information for, anyway.

I agree that the SSAN should be used only for the original, intended purpose. But, unfortunately, that's not the world we live in -- not anymore. And, false information? Bo, them days are long gone. I've hunted people down the old-fashioned way. It's even easier today. No, I don't need an SSAN to catch somebody greasing a BSA application. It is true that there are a few other, key identifying characteristics; and, that the SSAN is just one of them. But, the more "keys" you have, the better the odds of a successful and, more importantly, safer search. It's best for the kids -and- the other adults, too. In this matter, my way is Ronald Reagan's way... "Trust, but verify."

BTW, if a volunteer had a DUI a few years back, so what? Scouters are human, too.

And, yes, fingerprints should also be required. That would virtually eliminate the potential for any convicted child sex offenders even trying to sneak in under the radar.