Camping MB req's

[TopangaScouter]

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[wagionvigil]

Here is the requirement. Show me where it says that it must be done after you give the counselor the card. If he has met the below requirements since becoming a scout he meets the standards.

.Show experience in camping by doing the following:
a. Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent.
b. On any of these camping experiences, you must do TWO of the following, only with proper preparation and under qualified supervision:
1. Hike up a mountain, gaining at least 1,000 vertical feet.
2. Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least 4 miles.
3. Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours.
4. Take a nonmotorized trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles.
5. Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience.
6. Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more.
c. Perform a conservation project approved by the landowner or land managing agency.

[Mrw]

Here is the requirement. Show me where it says that it must be done after you give the counselor the card. If he has met the below requirements since becoming a scout he meets the standards.

.Show experience in camping by doing the following:
a. Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent.
b. On any of these camping experiences, you must do TWO of the following, only with proper preparation and under qualified supervision:
1. Hike up a mountain, gaining at least 1,000 vertical feet.
2. Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least 4 miles.
3. Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours.
4. Take a nonmotorized trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles.
5. Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience.
6. Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more.
c. Perform a conservation project approved by the landowner or land managing agency.

Yep, my view too!

[evmori]

While I agree with the prior two posts, it is still up to you as the MB counselor. And while there is nothing that states the requirements must be completed since the Scout signed up for the MB, there is also nothing that states you can't do this.

If you have counseled this MB for the same unit, you should use the same criteria you have in the past.

[wagionvigil]

ANd the scout can go to another counselor if he wishes

[TopangaScouter]

ANd the scout can go to another counselor if he wishes

I'm about ready to tell the scouts parents that very thing.

[wagionvigil]

The Problem I see is that you are adding to the requirements when you make it at the Blue Card. Actually Blue cards are not required anymore. It is just a book keeping item for the scout and the MBC. I think Paul WOlf might be able to clarify this.

[smtroop168]

This MB causes more discussion than most others with regard to a number of issues such as

1) having a signed blue card before you start a MB - a new scout going to summer camp a week after he becomes a Boy Scout can use his camp for Requirement 9 even though he probably still doesn't know what a blue card is. There are a number of other posts that talk to the blue card issues.

2) As shown you must do 2 of req 9b as part of your 20. Has the scout completed any of those as a part of the 20 he wants to use for 9a. He can do both in one campout depending on the event. You are allowed to discuss how he "showed experience" in the days he wants to use especially if you weren't on the event.

3) Make sure that none of the days/nights were backyard camping. the requirements changed in 2007 and added "The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event"

[smtroop168]

Also you can look at the Camping MB threads under Eagle Required Badges - lots of discussion on req 9A - which is probably where this thread should go.

[Fibonacci]

As Advancement Chair, this is the one Blue Card I held back after it was signed. A Scout who had camped with the troop on one weekend trip came back from Summer Camp with a completed Camping blue card. We talked about the 20 nights requirement and agreed that the counselor had probably gotten mixed up. (In reality, I think the counselor counted the camping this Scout had done in elementary school with his family. But I wasn't at the mb class, so I don't know.) Anyway, the Scout decided that he would keep track of his camping nights & his activities and then go to another counselor. When he was really done, he was proud to receive this merit badge.

[Mrw]

ANd the scout can go to another counselor if he wishes

I'm about ready to tell the scouts parents that very thing.

It sounds like there is more at issue here about whether to count previous camping nights....

I do question why you would require the boy to count only from here out for the camping nights though. If the troop camps once a month, it would take 10 months from start to finish to complete this badge if the boy was not able to attend summer camp! And that is assuming two nights each campout and that the boy does not miss any for any reason.

[PaulSWolf]

The Problem I see is that you are adding to the requirements when you make it at the Blue Card. Actually Blue cards are not required anymore. It is just a book keeping item for the scout and the MBC. I think Paul Wolf might be able to clarify this.

As Wagionvigil, MRW and SMTroop168 have said, you're adding to the requirements by requiring camping only after the Scout has started working with you on the other portions.

WHEN he camped does not matter, so long as it meets these specifications:

Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent.

If you won't abide by BSA's standards and want to set your own, then you SHOULD NOT be a counselor, and the Scout SHOULD goto a different counselor.

[Billiken]

This idea of requiring camping after starting the MB would be the same as telling a Scout that he has to start his coin collection after starting Coin Collecting MB.

[smtroop168]

There are lots of examples like Coin Collecting. In fact I bet every MB could have requirements that are started or completed before a blue card. How about Swimming or First Aid where you have to finish rank requirements as requirements for the MB.

As in a lot of these dilemas, there is a Paul Harvey - rest of the story- we don't get. Is it the scout or the parents in this case?

[TopangaScouter]

..

[Quailman]

Opinions?

You are the one who asked for opinions, after making the following statement.

Bottom line: he doesn't think he has to do the actual camping part of the MB because of the past nights he has camped.

Clearly the overwhelming opinion, which you apparently do not agree with, is that the boy has in fact done the "actual camping part of the MB". You stated that you wiped the slate clean of all his camping experiences as they relate to the camping MB and everyone else voiced the opinion that the nights camped since becoming a boy scout should count. What's the point of camping 20 nights, anyway? Is it to gain experience so you can meet challenges that might present themselves while camping in the future, or is it to enter a set of tickmarks on a page so the MB counselor will sign off?

Earning a MB should be meaningful, but not unreasonably onerous.

[FieldSports]

If your goal is consistency, and I think that is everyone's goal, then you should simply follow the rules. From the date the youth starts boy scouts, he is working on our program.

You have been told the rules of no additions, no deletions, blue cards are for record keeping, etc. I read all the response and heard the vast years of experience conveyed. Did you read the positions and background of those that took the time to help you? Please don't insult because it does not fit your incorrect understanding. We are here to turn boys into men and this forum is the best resource available.

[Mrw]

I get the impression that this forum is for the most part inhabited by a bunch of grumpy old men.


I'm out of here.

A grumpy old man I am certainly not!!!! (Although my kids used to tell me I was "mean" when I did not let them do what they claimed "everyone else" was allowed!)

If I were the parent of a boy who was told he needed to start over for the 20 nights, I would go find another counselor AND let the troop advancement person and the SM know why. Then they would know not to give out your name in the future.

The meaningful part in earning the merit badge is knowing that because you learned the things required to complete the badge. And I would argue the boy learns the most about camping that first time or two he goes after joining scouts than he would starting over with the record keeping now.

Two years ago, my younger son took a graphics class in high school. About the time the semester finished, he realized he had done all the requirements for the merit badge and more. So he took all the project over to the counselor who signed off the badge after about 15 minutes as he had all the proof of what he had done. Would you have made him start over?

[evmori]

I agree that the nights camping before the Scout started the MB should count. I was trying to point out there is nothing definitive that states they should or shouldn't be, therefore it is up to the MB counselor.

[wagionvigil]

Ed If you read Paul Wolfs answer it says the facts. Paul is the Final Answer on this. The Camping starts the day the Boys signs hs memership application. And anyone who dose it differently is adding to the requirements.