Combining Projects to Earn MB

[ScoutingStokes]

My two boys and I decided to work on the Gardening MB this summer. I am a reg MB Counselor for this and several other badges, and I told the boys to each choose a "buddy" and we'd make it a summer project.

We've decided that for our "big project" (Requirement #6) we'd make a vermipost bin (worm farm). The guys asked what we'd do with the worm tea and compost from 4 worm farms, and I suggested selling it. (What we don't use in our gardens, of course.) We have QUITE a few ladies in our Charter Church who are big gardeners.

My question is, can I incorporate that into the Entrepreneurship badge as well? Of course, they would need to accomplish the other requirements as well, but could we plan for the worm farm, do the market research and such as the eventual outcome for the second badge, too? (also Requirement #6)

Is combining like this a bad idea? I don't want to short the program, but I thought it would be a neat opportunity for the boys to earn both badges.

[smtroop168]

Maybe. You question is if double-dipping is okay. There are no restrictions on double-dipping but find a MB Counselor for the badge and have the boys ask him/her. The MBC is the final authority on the badge just like you are for Gardening.

[ScoutingStokes]

I understand double-dipping, and I don't want to do that. But if I expand on one project from one merit badge to move into another merit badge, am I double dipping?

As far as an Entrepreneurship MBC, we do not have one in our unit. I will check and see if we have one in our Council. I had considered signing up for it myself in order to see the entire project through to fruition.

[FrankJ]

The business world calls it synergy. What you describe is not double dipping. As long as the requirements for the individual merit badges are met, I think it is a great idea.

Sounds like you would be a great Entrepreneurship MBC.

[AquilaNegra2]

I think this is a great idea. While you're at it, you might include the requirements for American Business (since they require running the business for 3 months).

#2 son is concentrating on the nature badges over the summer -- he plans to do them all at once, since there is considerable overlap (Nature, Bird Study, Mammal Study, Insect Study). Mammal Study requires taking pictures of mammals in the wild. He'll have his sketch book and field guide with him at the same time to sketch any birds he sees. And a box for the insects he runs across. And have his eye out for animal tracks. If he can find a counselor, he'll be adding Forestry to the mix.

Does he learn less because he combines them? Not at all. Instead, he's learning how it all weaves into one beautiful tapestry. Sounds like your boys will learn their badges a lot more thoroughly because it's not theoretical.

[ScoutingStokes]

I hadn't thought about American Business.... I had considered talking with our Computer MBC though, since the boys will need to do some online research into marketing, etc. and also make packaging, advertising materials, etc. I ordered several books from Amazon about vermiposting and organic gardening...I thought they could use those for the non-fiction requirements of the Reading MB while getting their research accomplished!

I really like what AquilaNegra2 said about weaving them all together into one tapestry. That was essentially what prompted me to start digging into the requirements of the other badges - and to quote AquilaNegra2 again, I was hoping the boys would learn more by putting things together and getting more in depth, rather than it being theoretical. It all really started because the boys had a valid question: What to do with the worm farm after they completed their MB? And I didn't want them to think of it as just "completing" their MB, I wanted them to see the advantages of long term organic and worm gardening.

Thanks for the supportive thoughts and ideas! I've only been participating in this forum for a week or two, but have already come to rely on everyone's combined experience and thoughts! I plan to type up my plan for the guys for the summer, with some sheets to help them. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to share!

[mt_goodrich]

I would put it as making the most of one's time.

[ASM-142]

Would the proceeds from selling this product go to the troop? If so then you may need to get approval as a fundraiser.

[ScoutingStokes]

Would the proceeds from selling this product go to the troop? If so then you may need to get approval as a fundraiser.

I thought of that, but then I decided that if it's the boys' business, they need to decide what to do with their profits. If they want to put it in the troop, I'll teach them about the fundraiser paperwork. If they don't, then it gives me an opportunity to teach them the budgeting side - how to put back into their business to expand it, profit and loss, etc. Which is perhaps where I can work some of the requirements for American Business in, as was suggested...

[AquilaNegra2]

If the boys are doing the sales and marketing, don't forget to add in the Salesmanship badge . And since they'll be keeping the profits, they'll want to learn how best to save, invest, and spend that money in Personal Management. If they name one of the worms "George" and teach him three tricks, they can work on Pets at the same time! (Okay, obviously kidding there.)

[joat]

One boy or even two selling a product in conjunction with earning a MB does not constitute a troop money-earning event. It might be different if the troop was setting up worm bins for the purpose of earning money. But that's not the case here.

Having run worm bins in the past, I'd suggest two bins as a bare minimum; 3 or 4 is better. When one bin is ready to harvest, stop feeding for about 2 weeks. It's important that the worm poop not be mixed with undigested food scraps which will rot and stink. When they have eaten all the remaning food, pull them out and put in the 2nd bin, empty the 1st bin and start over fresh.

[smtroop168]

So....the forum has come to this! Advice not on Scouting but on Worm Poop!

[ScoutingStokes]

If the boys are doing the sales and marketing, don't forget to add in the Salesmanship badge . And since they'll be keeping the profits, they'll want to learn how best to save, invest, and spend that money in Personal Management. If they name one of the worms "George" and teach him three tricks, they can work on Pets at the same time! (Okay, obviously kidding there.)

I don't know, I'm liking it.....

[ScoutingStokes]

So....the forum has come to this! Advice not on Scouting but on Worm Poop!

Hey, Scouts are environmentally conscious! lol Worm poop is GREAT for the environment!

[mhjacobson]

We sort of got ahead of ourselves. While I think that it is great that we have been more generous in our opinion of whether or not the double dipping is OK than some of those who post on the advancement thread, it is important to note that whether or not the actions of the boys will be accepted for multiple merit badges is the decision of the appropriate merit badge counselor(s). When you decide which MB will be earned as the result of the project, it is important that the boys involved (in consultation with the SM) contact EACH of the MB counselors to make sure that they will accept the activities that will be used for multiple MB. You may find that some of the expected MB may not be earned as the result of hte joint project. This prior notice is not only required, if you follow normal MB procedures, but will save the boys a lot of MB work on the MB that would not be accepted.

[UtahScoutmaster]

Okay...this has brought up some interesting thoughts for me. Coincidentally my son & I have been figuring out how to "maximize" his efforts in the earning of his MB's. This actually started with two things.

1) Our troop noticed there is some overlap with the Safety & Emergency Preparedness MB's...hence they all earned both....Ventures & Scouts. (There was specific nights dedicated to Safety...but after nearly two months on Emerg. Prep....this was not so bad.)

2) I bought the "2011 Boy Scout Requirements" for a quick reference & stated actually reading all the requirements for all the MB's. (I know...kinda sick. ) As I have been doing so I have been noticing quite a bit of overlap from one MB to another in regards to requirements.

Another example of "overlap", is for the Reading MB my son is working on. It shares some of the requirements with American Heritage...read a biography (historical). We talked about this being a good time to maybe open work on that MB as well.

Another "overlap" was between Communications & Citizenship in the Community MB where you need to attend a City Council meeting. My son already done this & earned Cit-in-the-Comm MB previously but he of course went with the troop & took notes again.

There are several more "overlaps" I am noting but I personally have no problem with synergizing their MB achievements if they are doing the work & it is not retro active. (I.E. if my son was trying to go back & use the previous City Council Mtg 2 years before to count for his current efforts on Communications...which he didn't.) I also think, as was alluded to above, that this "overlapping" may help them learn how everything is related & connected...which is EXACTLY one of the things I (and BSA)want them to understand when they leave Scouts and go in to the world.

Anyway, I plan to to keep reading and keeping an eye out for other "overlaps" to maximize the efforts of boys in the troop...and pointing out how they relate and how they individually relate to their respective MB's

[FrankJ]

It is up to the individual MBC to determine if the specific requirements are met. Generally speaking double dipping is not prohibited. But the point of merit badges is to learn something, not just to blow through them, to see how many patches you can collect.

What I encourage scouts to follow: If it is a skills kind of thing, use it it for everything. IE CPR. If it something like service hours I would expect them to do them separately.

[WeeWillie]

Using a project to meet multiple MB requirements is OK as long as each element of each requirement is met. Combining efforts for 2 or 3 badges is realistic. 4, 5, 6.... is another matter. It is too easy to lose track of what is being accomplished. I've seen elaborate spread sheets when requirements have been cross referenced by some enterprising adult. Scout Advancement represents individual achievement and sometimes that is lost when adults get involved(other than a MBC)

[smtroop168]

Using a project to meet multiple MB requirements is OK as long as each element of each requirement is met. Combining efforts for 2 or 3 badges is realistic. 4, 5, 6.... is another matter. It is too easy to lose track of what is being accomplished. I've seen elaborate spread sheets when requirements have been cross referenced by some enterprising adult. Scout Advancement represents individual achievement and sometimes that is lost when adults get involved(other than a MBC)

Love to see that spreadsheet.

Requirements. You are expected to meet the requirements as they are stated—no more and no less. You are expected to do exactly what is stated in the requirements. If it says "show or demonstrate," that is what you must do. Just telling about it isn't enough. The same thing holds true for such words as "make," "list," "in the field," and "collect," "identify," and "label."

So as long as the scout meets the requirement for each MB its okay to double/triple count. He can't just say I did that for MB X 3 years ago just by telling the MBC he did. The MBC has the final say.

[UtahScoutmaster]

I find this thread very thought provoking; thx for all your input one way or the other.

Using a project to meet multiple MB requirements is OK as long as each element of each requirement is met. Combining efforts for 2 or 3 badges is realistic.

Agreed! This is one of the reasons I kinda started making my own cross references as I read through the 2011 Requirements. I.E. A given requirement under American Heritage back to Reading & visa-versa. Reading through various threads here has also been helpful by those that have "been there & done that." In this day & age of so much rushing, busseling, & busy schedules for all parties concerned...leaders, parents & of course kids need to maximize/synergize their efforts while not cheating themselves of any opportunities or experiences.

Anyway, I have been finding that pointing out this synergy to parents in the troop helps them & their Scout to not get as overwhelmed with it all

What I encourage scouts to follow: If it is a skills kind of thing, use it it for everything. IE CPR. If it something like service hours I would expect them to do them separately.

Absolutely.

I've seen elaborate spread sheets when requirements have been cross referenced by some enterprising adult. Scout

Love to see that spreadsheet.

I too would appreciate being emailed a copy...or directed to similar links.

Requirements. You are expected to meet the requirements as they are stated—no more and no less. You are expected to do exactly what is stated in the requirements. If it says "show or demonstrate," that is what you must do. Just telling about it isn't enough. The same thing holds true for such words as "make," "list," "in the field," and "collect," "identify," and "label."

EXCELLENT points!

So as long as the scout meets the requirement for each MB its okay to double/triple count. He can't just say I did that for MB X 3 years ago just by telling the MBC he did. The MBC has the final say.

Exactly...my point with my son's visits to two City Council meetings.