No Collaboration or Protocol for MB

[Rob]

As I view many of these postings there is no protocol or collaboration for camping events, group merit badges, who holds the Blue Card, etc..... when it comes to getting the MB.

There should be some serious collaboration between the scout, MBC, and the council. For example, that scout who received his merit badge in swimming and was signed by a 17 year old. There should have been a policy set by the Camp and Council so that everyone knows right up front if that scout could get his MB signed

It looks like that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

[Quailman]

I think you're referring to this:

Here is a question: We have a scout who taught Swimming and Canoeing MB's at summer camp. He signed off the requirements and the Waterfront Director signed the Blue Cards and returned them to the SM. Can that boy still sign off requirements for these MB's, including the swimming requirements for rank, for the troop, even though he is 17?

He said the Blue Card was signed by the waterfront director, who is presumably an adult, though the 17-year old attested to the boy's having met the requirements. Camps are often merit badge mills, whether or not the requirements are being signed off by older youths.

There are protocols for the MB's and they're the requirements. There are certain others pertaining to MB counselors, such as YPT, minimum age, some level of expertise in the subject matter. As for the rest, well, some of it has to be left up to the individual, and that's what leads to such lively discussions here. You mention the Blue Cards, and the concensus here is that they are not required. The MBC could sign on a cocktail napkin that the scout earned the MB and it would be okay. For group MBs, the saying holds - "teach in a group but test individually." Most of what you read here is people griping, er, pointing out that this does not always occur.

I think that for the most part the right hand does know what the left hand is doing. It's just that in many instances neither hand is following the prescribed protocol.

[FrankJ]

There should be some serious collaboration between the scout, MBC, and the council. For example, that scout who received his merit badge in swimming and was signed by a 17 year old. There should have been a policy set by the Camp and Council so that everyone knows right up front if that scout could get his MB signed

There is a policy for camps to follow. It is in the Advancement Committee Guide. It is not really different than the normal way. An over 18 MBC must sign off on the final merit badge, but an under 18 can teach the class.

Group merit badges classes are also addressed. Scouts must be tested individually.

[milominderbinder2]

As I view many of these postings there is no protocol or collaboration for camping events, group merit badges, who holds the Blue Card, etc..... when it comes to getting the MB.

There should be some serious collaboration between the scout, MBC, and the council. For example, that scout who received his merit badge in swimming and was signed by a 17 year old. There should have been a policy set by the Camp and Council so that everyone knows right up front if that scout could get his MB signed

It looks like that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

There is a protocol that your council is not following:

http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Ad ... ummer_Camp

(which is taken from: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Me ... e_Policies)

This section spells out how to handle Scouts under age 18 teaching merit badges and blue cards and so much more.

If they gave Boy Scouts a try, I think that they would like it!

It starts with you. Read the list of policies quoted from the BSA Advancement Policies linked from that page.

Invest the $4 to buy the Advancement Policies book. The link is at the bottom of that page.

If you don't have your full uniform on, don't ask others to wear it.

If you won't have your policies, don't ask others to have theirs.

It starts with you.

- Craig

[Rob]

Thanks Craig I have that $4.00 manual and I have read it. I think a lot more people than I that need to read that book. Because I see BSA Camps nothing more than MB mills, lot of the attitude is: "this is the way it always has been done" or "it's no skin off my nose if I just sign a MB" and some of it is pure ignorance of the manual.

Thanks for the site-I definitely will be using it.

[FrankJ]

I have been to 3 different council's summer camps. While some merit badges were done better than others, the camps where doing the best that they could with the resources they had. They also were pretty much following BSA policies. I would not term any one of them a "merit badge mill". If you do not like the summer camp you are going to, find another one, there are plenty of good ones out there.

[wagionvigil]

I have set in on the Friday Night Bitch session when the SM's sit in the administration building going through their kids cards.Complain,Complain, complain Johnny came every day why is it not completed. I know Billy can do this or that. This might be why some camps just pass them through. I have gone nose to nose with leaders that were just right down nasty.We hear you did not doyour job or it is your fault for not helping him more. On and On.
There wa an incident this summer when a leader came to an area director to ask about when so and so could make up a partial from last year.The Area Director said send the kid down I will talk to him.The next day the father came down and he was told the same thing.Up to this point Johnny has never came to the area.That afternoon Johnny finally came down during the busiest class of the day and the area director asked himto comeback at a certain time to discuss it.Johnny went back to camp and told the SM and his dad that the AD had refused to talk to him.They intern went to the Program Director and things went south from there.I heard the PD screaming at the AD and the AD responding back.I went up from my area and interceded and explained everything I had seen and the AD had asked the kid to return at a time they could talk.It is up to the scout to do the talking and I will never talk to a SM or parent when the kid can come and speak for themselves.So IMHO these examples are why some choose just to sign the cards.

[Bill Pitcher]

To Rob, the 17 yr. old scout mentioned in the post about Swimming MB at camp has Swimming MB, Lifesaving MB, BSA Lifeguard and Small Watercraft MB. It's just that he isn't 18 yet. So, the Waterfront Dir. signed the MB Blue card, but the 17 yr. old taught the class and did a GREAT job. Camps don't always have the luxury of hiring a staff of all 18 yr. olds or older . . . not enough $$$ to do it!!

[Rob]

To Bill: I was not questioning the 17 yr old abilities but was there any communication stating that he was going to teach the class and the Waterfront Director was going to sign off the Blue Card? If it wasn't written or posted in such a fashion that everyone knew what was going to happen at the water front, then there was no validation of the MB.

[PaulSWolf]

To Bill: I was not questioning the 17 yr old abilities but was there any communication stating that he was going to teach the class and the Waterfront Director was going to sign off the Blue Card? If it wasn't written or posted in such a fashion that everyone knew what was going to happen at the water front, then there was no validation of the MB.

That's a very typical procedure at many Scout camps. Many classes in many areas are taught by Scouts on staff who are under age 18. The MB Card is signed by the area director who is always over 18, and is considered the MB Counselor..

[Fibonacci]

Several years ago my son took Swimming MB at summer camp. After all classes were completed, the registered counselor (Waterfront Director) learned that the Swimming instructor had neglected to test one of the skills. All the boys had to go back to the waterfront to demonstate the skill. I was really impressed. This solution pointed out that an error had been made and it took time to fix, but the merit badge was done right!

[Bill Pitcher]

To Rob, et. al.: Yup! The waterfront director was over 18. My original question was . . . can this 17 year old still teach/test the skills for SMB and swimming rank skills, now that camp is over, and the Blue Card gets signed by an over 18 MBC?" Anotherwords, does the MBC need to be present, knowing that this 17 yr. old knows his stuff and has taught it at camp ! ? ! Question came up at a TC meeting last month.

[wagionvigil]

Yes he can as long as the MBC over 18 supervises in some capacity I would say.

[FrankJ]

Bill: to answer the original question. It is up to the merit badge councilor to decide, not the TC, but personally I think it is a good idea.

The youth should work with the MBC while doing this.

[Cowboy]

I have yet to see where a merit badge councilor is required to learn the material. The MBC IS required to approve the MB. This means that the Scout must prove knowledge of the subject. Many MB's do require discussion with a MBC in order to fulfill the requirements. If you want to be a true hardliner, you can make a lot of waves with Camps about did the Scout discuss such and such with another boy or did he discuss it with a registered councilor. But the bottom line is that we have to trust the honesty and integrity of the person who is signing the card. If you feel that the skills/knowledge are not actually conveyed, there are processes in place to remove the MBC as a councilor. I am reminded of a MB Clinic at which my wife was to "teach" Cit. in Community. There were 15 boys who signed up and 2 needed it soon in order to meet timelines for Eagle. The night before the clinic she lost her voice. She taught nothing the next day. We called her mother, and she did all of the talking. My wife gave hand directions, listened as the boys were questioned and checked over the written stuff. The requirements were met, and the boys still learned. Innovation and team work, I think the boys may have learned more about teamwork that day than they would in a full season of playing basketball. (BTW: not all requirements were met as there were some that had to be done outside the clinic.)

[FrankJ]

Merit badge councilors must be approved by the council (district) advancement committee. It is completely up to the up to the committee what criteria they use to approve the councilors. (unless they have read one of the shooting sports merit books). The implication is the MBC will know something about the subject.

Merit badge clinics & camps generally are taught where as individuals working on merit badges teach themselves with the councilor's guidance. This is probably why I am not a big fan on merit badge clinics.

[Cowboy]

I agree with you Frank. I have seen too many "teaching" sessions rather than learning sessions. It is always a trhill to me when a boy comes to a clinic actually having read the pamphlet and has some knowledge of the topic. I have also found that too many of the clinics have the boys use worksheets and listen to a "teacher" and this counts as the discussion and proof of learning. When one of our boys come to me to finish a MB from a clinic or camp, I do review the "met" requirements to verify what has and has not been learned. I personally do not consider this retesting. I am simply determining what has been covered and making sure that the boy has enough knowledge to finish out the requirements. If not: I can work that into the remainder of the MB. If I know the material well enough that I feel comfortable counciling the MB, I know it well enough to work in the missing information while working on other things.