First time MB counselor disaster!! Help!

[MT's Mom]

I gladly agreed when my DE asked me to be the MBC for "Citizenship in the Nation" for our MB fair. That was my first mistake. My second mistake was assuming that all (most? some?) of the boys would be prepared for the class. Of a total of 20 boys (between 2 sessions, two hours each) only 5 showed up with a filled out and signed blue card. One had no idea what a blue card was. I would say that three had a MB work sheet and had done some work on the MB before comming to the class. Only two boys had read any of the documents (Preamble to the Constitution). ONLY one boy had read the MB book. None of the other boys had done anything to prepare. I had 6 Tenderfoot Scouts (5th grade). The balance of the scouts were Second Class and under. The highest grade was 7th. I did have one Star. In my state, US Government, Constitution, etc. is part of the 8th grade curriculum, so that's what I was expecting, 8th grade, First Class scouts and above. After we covered Req. 1, their eyes glazed over and I lost them. For the most part, they hung in there with me and were generally very well mannered. I gave them several short breaks. We had some interesting discussions. I had some fun visual aids. Doesn't it make sense to send your boy to a class where he will be succesful and retain the information? Was I the babysitter? Were my expectations too high? What about rank advancement before MB's? Is it the parents or the SM's pushing the scouts? How do I fill out their Blue Cards? I kept the blue cards because there wasn't enought time to fill them all out and I wanted to do it correctly. (I'll return them at Round Table next week or mail) The Tenderfoots were there in body, but not in mind. I came home so frustrated.

Thanks for listening.

MT's Mom

[smtroop168]

Welcome to the Forum. As one who runs a MB College here in PA, I'm sure you were frustrated. We have experienced lack of preparation on the scouts part as well even though the prereqs are posted on the registration site 3 months prior to the event. Our rule is that if you are not prepared with the prereqs and blue card and get engaged in the class discussions, the MBC can and will ask you to leave so the scouts that are prepared can get the attention they deserve. MBC don't exercise this option very often but it only takes a couple of "dismissals" to get the scouts/parents/leaders attention. We are going into year 7 of our event and every year it seems more of the scouts come prepared. Out of the 14 badges this year and over 250 scouts, only one MBC had prereq completion problems.

[wagionvigil]

I am with you. I feel you pain.
Ok IMHO Two hours is way too long. HAving taught for 35 years No one can do 2 hours even adults. If you do this again I would approach those in charge and chage that plus I would make a stand on if you are not prepared you will be asked to leave and do it. It only takes a minute to have the boys show you their paper work and filled in work sheets etc. I have preresquites for climbing and the leaders are given this information. When the boys arrive there is a sectionof rope on their seats and they must tye any of the required knots. Can you say doe in headlights? I then get on the leadership and say the class is on hold until the leaders do their job and this will cut into climbing time so some of you may not ever get to climb. I then say I will be back in 5 minutes and go have a cup of coffee. It usually works. ALl you have to do is remove one or two kids and it will have the desired affect. In most cases this is not the Boys fault it is bad leadership .

[Cowboy]

Welcome! First: It is not your fault, it is the SM's fault. The SM is responsible to determine if a Scout is prepared to start a MB. Most of these boys (probably) heard that Cit Comm is the easiest ERMB, and they wanted to "get it out of the way". As you stated, this is an area that many boys do not study in school until the back half of middle school. Unfortunately I have noticed that many schools are glossing over this in light of "politically correct" things like SS Marriage, etc. That is why it is so important for us to reallly cover these areas well. We have begun grouping the MB's into suggested age/ranks for our MB Clinic. Railroading and Pet Care for Tenderfeet, Citizenship for 1st Class and up, etc. This is not a set in stone requirement, just a basic guideline. In those cases where the SM is not on top of things, he is not properly guiding the boys anyway and will take these suggestions as requirements.

[Mrw]

If most of these kids had not done anything at all prior to coming to the MB day, the best they can do is a partial anyways. Be fair about if they completed a requirement, but do not think you need to give them completed cards just because they were there.

We aways tell our kids that the merit badge midway is best used as easy access to MBC's for things you have largely completed already. Or as a place to get started on something you need some direction with. We also tell them that with a very few exceptions, if they have not done anything before showing up, they are going to get partials on the things they do work on.

[smtroop168]

I'll never be one to supress advancement by making the sign ups age dependent so I rely on the SM to make sure his guys are doing their part. We have a wide range of MBs so the young scouts have choices like Art or Railroading, mid-range like Electronics and Photograpy and the older guys have badges like Law and Entrepreneurship.

[kwildman]

Merit badge days are really merit badge mills. I dont think that the kids benefit as much from these settings as working on smaller groups especially for the ERMB. If you are planning these events it is better to stick with the easier ones that can be accomplished in a day without too much prerequisite work.

[Cowboy]

Don't get me wrong, AGE is not the only determinant, but that is where a good SM comes into play. He/She will know what level the boy is at and if they are MATURE enough for a particular MB. That is one of the reasons that the SM is suppose to be contacted FIRST when a boy wants to take a MB. It is also why, when we have our MB Clinic, we require that the boy bring a signed (by SM) Blue Card with the MB filled in. This is his "Ticket" to get into the clinic. That way we know for sure that the boy has been vetted by his SM, and that (hopefully) the SM feels that the boys is "qualified" to complete the work.

[FrankJ]

Unfortunately this is the Boy Scouts we live in. With the push to get eagle by 13, you are going to get scouts taking merit badges before they are ready. Currently according to the "rules" a SM cannot refuse to let a scout work on merit badge because the scout is not mature enough yet.

What you can do is stay within the rules. Sign off the scouts that complete the requirements & do not sign off the ones that do not. Be encouraging to all. On the sign up list for the clinic make sure your prerequisites for the class are clear.

[smtroop168]

That way we know for sure that the boy has been vetted by his SM, and that (hopefully) the SM feels that the boys is "qualified" to complete the work.

My guess is that a lot of the SMs feel the scout is qualified. The issue is that the scout doesn't do the work and "expects" the MB. I've also had parents confront the MBC and call them unprofessional when little Johnny didn't get the MB. Unfortunately for the scout, they are flagged now to not be invited back.

What you can do is stay within the rules. Sign off the scouts that complete the requirements & do not sign off the ones that do not. Be encouraging to all. On the sign up list for the clinic make sure your prerequisites for the class are clear.

Concur.

Merit badge days are really merit badge mills. I dont think that the kids benefit as much from these settings as working on smaller groups especially for the ERMB. If you are planning these events it is better to stick with the easier ones that can be accomplished in a day without too much prerequisite work.
Merit badge days are really merit badge mills. I dont think that the kids benefit as much from these settings as working on smaller groups especially for the ERMB. If you are planning these events it is better to stick with the easier ones that can be accomplished in a day without too much prerequisite work.

Ours is not. It is 2 Saturdays with a month between to do outside work. Plus they register up to 90 days before the event so they can begin the prereqs. I do not like 1 day events for the reasons you list.

[FrankJ]

I've also had parents confront the MBC and call them unprofessional when little Johnny didn't get the MB. Unfortunately for the scout, they are flagged now to not be invited back

My response to that as always been to tell them to read the requirement & then to tell me how what Johny has done matches the requirement.

Although it is more fun to talk about the exceptions, most parents understand & accept my view of the program when it is explained to them.

[kwildman]

Don't get me wrong, AGE is not the only determinant, but that is where a good SM comes into play. He/She will know what level the boy is at and if they are MATURE enough for a particular MB. That is one of the reasons that the SM is suppose to be contacted FIRST when a boy wants to take a MB. It is also why, when we have our MB Clinic, we require that the boy bring a signed (by SM) Blue Card with the MB filled in. This is his "Ticket" to get into the clinic. That way we know for sure that the boy has been vetted by his SM, and that (hopefully) the SM feels that the boys is "qualified" to complete the work.

Maturity is not a prerequisite and age is only for a few...dangerous grounds w/ the whole "not adding to the requirements" thing. i would agree that a SM should try to steer the youth into appropriate merit badges but there is nothing that states that a SM can deny or prevent a youth from participating in a merit badge. I think the biggest issue is not the age with this merit badge but rather the implementation. Citizenship is not designed to be earned in a one day program.

[smtroop168]

I've also had parents confront the MBC and call them unprofessional when little Johnny didn't get the MB. Unfortunately for the scout, they are flagged now to not be invited back

My response to that as always been to tell them to read the requirement & then to tell me how what Johny has done matches the requirement.

Although it is more fun to talk about the exceptions, most parents understand & accept my view of the program when it is explained to them.

I agree..its hard to rationalize with unrational people though. The funny part is that this particular scout knew he was wrong and you could see he was trying to escape the situation.

[smtroop168]

http://www.keystonebsa.org/registration ... Key=431450

This was the link to our registration page.

[MT's Mom]

Thanks everyone for the encouragement and great ideas for the future!


MT's Mom
OTC

[alex gregory]

Citizenship in Nation (CIN) is arguably the single most important merit badge in scouting. It's not easy to counsel, but you'll do fine.

While I'm fine with letting a scout piece-meal the badge at is own pace, I prefer to have a small group just get the badge done and break up the merit badge into two two-hour sessions with a group of 2 to 4 scouts (6th graders and 7th graders are fine) separated by about 2 to 4 weeks, and then follow up with each scout to finish the badge. The material is perfect for small group discussions. I share the schedule well in advance and ask each scout to be prepared to discuss what's on the menu (reading the pamphlet is good, actually reading the Declaration of Indepedence and US Constitution is even better).

The agenda for the 1st session is usually:
- Explain your rights, duties and responsibilities as a US citizen. (Req. 1)
- Discuss worksheet for tracking 5 consecutive days of watching or reading the national news. (Req. 3)
- Discuss Declaration of Independence. (Req. 4a)
- Discuss Preamble of US Constitution. (Req. 4b and 5)
- Choose a speech of national historical significance. (Req. 6)
- Name and discuss the functions of the 3 branches of Federal Government and explain the system of checks and balances. (Req. 7)
- Name your two senators and member of Congress, and discuss how you can share your views with your elected representatives. (Req. .

The agenda for the 2d session is usually:
- Turn in completed Requirement 3 worksheets, and discuss the national issues you learned about after watching/reading the national news for 5 consecutive days. Req. 3.
- Discuss Articles I, II and III of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and Amendments. (Finish Req. 4)
- Discuss and share what you learned about your chosen speech of national historical importance. (Finish Req. 6)
- Discuss letters to elected representatives. Req. 8.

After the 2d session (sometimes before the 1st session in the case of Eager Beaver Scout) the scouts write and show me their Req. 8 letters, and tell me the letters have been mailed. It usually takes another couple of weeks to tie up any loose ends, during which time most scouts get a reply to their letter.

Remember that your should be YPT trained, and at least one parent or other adult must always be present to satisfy the 2-deep leadership requirement.

[smtroop168]

Remember that your should be YPT trained, and at least one parent or other adult must always be present to satisfy the 2-deep leadership requirement.

There is no requirement for 2 deep leadership for MBs. There is a buddy system which can be another scout.

[Bill Pitcher]

To MT's Mom: Remember, you have the right (and obligation) to test each boy on each requirement before signing the blue card!

[evmori]

Remember that your should be YPT trained, and at least one parent or other adult must always be present to satisfy the 2-deep leadership requirement.

There is no requirement for 2 deep leadership for MBs. There is a buddy system which can be another scout.

Exactly!